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Rnd 2 Grp 3 - T-64 (Soviet Union/Russia) vs M24 Chaffee (USA)

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  • Rnd 2 Grp 3 - T-64 (Soviet Union/Russia) vs M24 Chaffee (USA)

    Round 2, Group 3: T-64 (Soviet Union/Russia) vs M24 Chaffee (USA)


    Forget the differences in size, weight, gun-power and armour. It's not about all that stuff. What we need to work out here is, how significant and influential were each of these two tanks?

    In his volume on the T-64 and T-80, Steven Zaloga describes the T-64 as, the most radical advance in world tank technology in the 1960s
    Among the notable features, T-64 would be developed to incorporate non-metallic elements in its armour envelope; the first series-produced MBT to do so. It also would be fitted with an extremely potent 125mm smoothbore gun. However, it was not exported like the T-62 or T-72, being retained almost entirely for domestic use.

    The M24 Chaffee has very different but still noteworthy qualities. It is an older design than T-64, arriving in active service during the final year of WW2. Many would insist that the Chaffee was the finest light tank to emerge from that conflict. It has had a very respectable post-war career and served in a good number of armies. One of the photos below shows Norwegian M24s in NATO service as recently as the early 1990s and it still serves in a few countries.

    For significance and influence, which one impresses you the most?


    Only one of these two candidates will make it to the next round!

    Which of them is the most significant and/or influential?



    Candidate #41 - T-64 (Soviet Union/Russia)

    Service Entry late 1960s (limited production); early 1970s (main series)
    Weight 38-40 metric tons
    Top Speed 60 km/h (37 mph)
    Main Armament 125mm smoothbore (115mm in initial batch)
    No. Produced 13,000 (approx.)

    For further info, check these:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-64
    http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t64.htm












    Candidate #45 - M24 Chaffee (USA)

    Service Entry 1944/45
    Weight 18 tons
    Top Speed 56 km/h (35 mph)
    Main Armament 75mm gun
    No. Produced 4,731

    For further info, see Wiki here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M24_Chaffee













    Consider the criteria with care! You decide!



    91
    T-64 (Soviet Union/Russia)
    80.22%
    73
    M24 Chaffee (USA)
    19.78%
    18

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by panther3485; 25 Jul 14, 11:14.
    "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

  • #2
    M24 Chaffee
    Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

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    • #3
      T64
      you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

      CPO Mzinyati

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      • #4
        M24 Chaffee (USA)

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        • #5
          Let us see, a tank firing a missile versus a popgun 75mm wielding tank? I have to go with the T-64.

          Pruitt
          Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

          Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

          by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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          • #6
            T-64 probably cemented the line of future main gun development; large caliber smooth bore weapons are now the norm.
            Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

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            • #7
              T-64 IMHO.
              "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
              Ernest Hemingway.

              In english "silence" means yelling louder than everyone else.

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              • #8
                Went with the M24 Chaffee.

                T-64 is a continuing of improvements of the T-55 to what will now become a T-90.

                The M24 Chaffee finally brings a bigger gun to enable reconnaissance units to gain information through firepower

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                • #9
                  T-64 (Soviet Union/Russia)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    T-64 gets this one. The Chaffee was under-armored, under-gunned and boxy compared to the 64. In fact, the Chaffee was not even in the same class as the T-64, and America discontinued this line of development not too long afterwards.
                    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Capt AFB View Post
                      T-64 is a continuing of improvements of the T-55 to what will now become a T-90.
                      T-64 is totally unrelated to T-55, though, and T-90 is a further development of T-72, which started almost as a competitor of T-64 since, with T-64's acceptance for production, Uralvagonzavod was essentially out of work.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DogDodger View Post
                        T-64 is totally unrelated to T-55, though, and T-90 is a further development of T-72, which started almost as a competitor of T-64 since, with T-64's acceptance for production, Uralvagonzavod was essentially out of work.
                        In one of the threads from previous round I described T-72 as a product of T-64 and improved T-62. Uralvagonzavod was slated for production of T-64 in 1970.
                        But nevertheless, energetic Kartsev hoped to develop a rival to the troubled T-64A, and after being refused by Moscow, he envisaged two variants: the basic T-64A with still unreliable 5TDF diesel engine, and a "mobilization" version using a normal diesel engine from the T-62, which was intended as a low-cost alternative for mobilization.

                        Uralvagonzavod developed a new auto-loader and introduced improved V-45 diesel engine. T-64A hull and turret were reconfigured to adopt those, which resulted in Object 172. A state decree on standardizing the T-64A gave Uralvagonzavod permission to further develop the Obiekt 172 which took it even further away from the T-64A configuration by permitting incorporation of the new suspension from the Obiekt 167 (which was improved T-62). This version was designated Obiekt 172M, which will later be accepted as T-72.

                        And another repost, which clearly shows the importance of T-64.
                        Last edited by RichardS; 30 Jul 14, 17:52.
                        It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.

                        Косово је Србија!
                        Never go to war with a country whose national holiday celebrates a defeat in 1389.

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                        • #13
                          This was a tough choice. But, the T-64 really represents a technological failure for the Soviets in that the vehicle saw limited production and disappeared from service fairly quickly in favor of the T-72 then T-80.
                          I'd put it akin to the M-60A2 "Starship." A niche vehicle with some interesting design features that overreached resulting in an expensive vehicle that didn't live up to its expectations.

                          The M24 as a light tank really represents a major leap forward for the US. Consider that it has the firepower of a Sherman tank, and better protection and mobility than its predecessor the M5 light.
                          Within the role of light tank it stayed in service for decades with many militaries worldwide giving good reliable service. It also became the basis for several self-propelled weapons that were excellent designs like the M19 40mm twin AA gun.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                            This was a tough choice. But, the T-64 really represents a technological failure for the Soviets in that the vehicle saw limited production and disappeared from service fairly quickly in favor of the T-72 then T-80.
                            I'd put it akin to the M-60A2 "Starship." A niche vehicle with some interesting design features that overreached resulting in an expensive vehicle that didn't live up to its expectations.


                            T-64 formed the basis and it was the mainstay of Group of Soviet Forces in Germany. After 50 years, it is still used.

                            The M24 as a light tank really represents a major leap forward for the US.
                            Within the role of light tank it stayed in service for decades with many militaries worldwide giving good reliable service. It also became the basis for several self-propelled weapons that were excellent designs like the M19 40mm twin AA gun.
                            It was the end of the evolutionary line that started in '30s and continued through '40s with M3/M5 but there was nothing M24 in heritage left to future designs.

                            M24 disappeared from the scene more rapidly than any other US export tank. Most NATO armies retired Chaffee by late '50, and there were few in service after '70. Those that have remained were upgraded by low pressure guns which were previously unavailable.

                            It's contribution to US war effort was limited by it's late arrival on battlefield and diminishing role of light tanks in European theatre. In Korea, it faced T-34/85 with abysmal results and was retired, together with variants (made in small numbers) quickly afterwards. Soviets, in their analysis of Lend-lease example they got, praised excellent driving and automotive characteristic but concluded M-24 does not meet modern requirements.
                            It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.

                            Косово је Србија!
                            Never go to war with a country whose national holiday celebrates a defeat in 1389.

                            Armored Brigade

                            Armored Brigade Facebook page

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                            • #15
                              Well, between the two only one was a design dead-end...

                              Would it be fair to say that the Chaffee was the end of the road for Light tanks?
                              BoRG
                              "... and that was the last time they called me Freakboy Moses"

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