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Rnd 2 Grp 2 - T-34 (Soviet Union/Russia) vs KV tanks (Soviet Union/Russia)

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  • #16
    I don't think I've ever seen such a lopsided score in one of our contests. This is a 2nd round matchup and the score is 82 to 0!
    Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
      I don't think I've ever seen such a lopsided score in one of our contests. This is a 2nd round matchup and the score is 82 to 0!
      We had the Challenger vs Ariete in Round 1, where the Ariete got 0 votes until about week 3 (IIRC), when it got 1 vote. That was the closest to a total wipe-out I've seen until now. But then, there's a week to go yet with this round so who knows, maybe the KV will get a vote yet, from somebody.
      "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

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      • #18
        Like everyone else, I voted for the T-34. But, that was before I read this article. In this case I would still vote as I did, but it is going to affect my vote in future rounds.

        http://chris-intel-corner.blogspot.g...nk-of-war.html
        If there are no dogs in Heaven, then I want to go where they went when they died-Will Rogers

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        • #19
          Originally posted by sherlock View Post
          Like everyone else, I voted for the T-34. But, that was before I read this article. In this case I would still vote as I did, but it is going to affect my vote in future rounds.

          http://chris-intel-corner.blogspot.g...nk-of-war.html
          First, these polls are not primarily about how "good" a tank was or is. They are mainly focussed on the significance and influence of the tanks.

          Second, I just had a look on that link. The first couple of paragraphs are straw-man crap IMO, so after that it was difficult to force myself to read any more. The author is 'setting up' supposed statements about the T-34 and then knocking them down. Thing is, from everything I have come to know about the T-34, no seriously knowledgeable student of armoured warfare is making statements quite like that in the first place.

          Reading on further, the author then makes statements which, though they contain certain carefully selected facts and some strong elements of truth, are of dubious overall balance and objectivity when taken as a whole IMO. After another seven or eight paragraphs, the axe-grind to "talk down" the T-34 was really striking to me.

          Yes, the T-34 - and in particular some of the earlier models - had faults and shortcomings. Some of them quite serious. However, speaking for myself I judge a piece of written work on how it treats those shortcomings, as well as the good points or virtues of a piece of equipment, with an eye on the need for objectivity and balance. Are the shortcomings underplayed or overplayed? And are the virtues of the T-34 given fair and equal treatment also?

          To my mind, the author has an obvious agenda. I would urge care, and don't swallow it hook, line and sinker.

          ----------

          Returning to the theme of this campaign, regardless of the faults of the T-34 there can be no serious question that it was very influential. Probably one of the most influential tank designs of all time. Furthermore, becoming the main Soviet battle tank on (arguably) the most important land front of WW2; being built and deployed in such large numbers; and with a service career spanning somewhere near 70 years, there can also be little doubt about its significance.

          It is the factors most relevant to the significance and influence of each tank, that we are being asked to consider in this tournament.
          Last edited by panther3485; 09 Aug 14, 13:02.
          "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

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          • #20
            I like the T-34 because it was on par with the Sherman in terms of numbers built.

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            • #21
              The T-34 could actually win this whole thing....so ill have a piece of it too..!

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              • #22
                I'd be a bit surprised if the T-34 didn't make it to at least the Quarter-Final (the last 8 tanks left standing).

                I'm thinking it's reasonably possible it could even be with us for the Semi-Final (last 4 tanks).

                I'm not all that confident about T-34 making the Final, though. There are some other damned fine and highly worthy candidates here.
                "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

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                • #23
                  T-34 for sure
                  "A foolish man thinks he knows everything if placed in unexpected difficulty; but he knows not what to answer, if to the test he is put."

                  --Hávamál

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