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Rnd 2 Grp 2 - Cromwell & Comet (Britain) vs PzKpfw IV (Germany)

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  • #16
    PzKpfw IV (Germany). I remember watching old History channel documentaries with my dad as a child and thinking they were one of the most incredible war machines I'd ever seen.

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    • #17
      i vote Pz IV. Comet came too late and Cromwell

      __________________________________________________
      War is like love, it always finds a way.
      BERTOLT BRECHT,

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      • #18
        The arguments are stronger for the Pz IV

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        • #19
          I find this one really tricky. We are dealing with two tanks that were really the termination of their respective technologies and designs, neither lending much to future developments.

          Still, the Cromwell/Comet did leave the Meteor/Merrit Brown driveline to the Centurion while the Panzer IV was a dead-end in every respect. So influence goes to the Cromwell/Comet.

          The Panzer IV was around much longer than its British protagonist(s), it was the only upgradable design the Germans had to tie them over from the Eastern Front "tank-gap" experienced in 1941 to the remedy - the Panther - became available in 1943/44. The sense of dread, that pervaded the German tankers in 1941 evaporated when the Panzer IV Ausf. G started to arrive in 1942. In that sense, it was truly significant for the Germans.
          The Panzer IV also had negative significance, in the sense that the Germans were forced by circumstances to keep it alive long after it went past its expiry date, leaving the Panzerwaffe with part is its inventory being ever more inferior to the opponents.
          I dont really see the Cromwell/Comet coming anywhere near the Panzer IV in terms of significance.

          So I opt for the Panzer IV as its significance solidly trumphs the influence of the Cromwell/Comet.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by cbo View Post
            I find this one really tricky. We are dealing with two tanks that were really the termination of their respective technologies and designs, neither lending much to future developments.

            Still, the Cromwell/Comet did leave the Meteor/Merrit Brown driveline to the Centurion while the Panzer IV was a dead-end in every respect. So influence goes to the Cromwell/Comet.

            The Panzer IV was around much longer than its British protagonist(s), it was the only upgradable design the Germans had to tie them over from the Eastern Front "tank-gap" experienced in 1941 to the remedy - the Panther - became available in 1943/44. The sense of dread, that pervaded the German tankers in 1941 evaporated when the Panzer IV Ausf. G started to arrive in 1942. In that sense, it was truly significant for the Germans.
            The Panzer IV also had negative significance, in the sense that the Germans were forced by circumstances to keep it alive long after it went past its expiry date, leaving the Panzerwaffe with part is its inventory being ever more inferior to the opponents.
            I dont really see the Cromwell/Comet coming anywhere near the Panzer IV in terms of significance.

            So I opt for the Panzer IV as its significance solidly trumphs the influence of the Cromwell/Comet.
            After some reflection, I'm inclined to agree. PzKpfw IV for me also.
            "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

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            • #21
              Pz IV - it standardised three man turrets, radios, and big gun. What extra did the Cromet add to the picture?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by broderickwells View Post
                Pz IV - it standardised three man turrets, radios, and big gun. What extra did the Cromet add to the picture?
                Neutral steering.
                "Looting would not be tolerated within the Division, unless organised with the knowledge of C.O.'s on a unit basis."
                - 15/19 Hussars War Diary, 18th March 1945

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Don Juan View Post
                  Neutral steering.
                  The Churchill, Tiger and Panther all featured this.

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                  • #24
                    I don't know between the two they're both good tanks. Ultimately I went with the Cromwell/Comet.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by broderickwells View Post
                      Pz IV - it standardised three man turrets, radios, and big gun. What extra did the Cromet add to the picture?
                      Absolutely.
                      I would rate both British machines superior to the PzIV in 44/5 in overall performance, but their significance was simply that having a medium/heavy or infantry/cruiser concept was not the way forward.

                      This was an easy choice imo.
                      How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
                      Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

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                      • #26
                        Comet for me....

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                        • #27
                          Panzer IV.
                          "A foolish man thinks he knows everything if placed in unexpected difficulty; but he knows not what to answer, if to the test he is put."

                          --Hávamál

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