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Rnd 2 Grp 2 - Churchill (Britain) vs Tiger tanks (Germany)

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  • broderickwells
    replied
    Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

    Based on the criteria of the poll, the Churchill does not deserve to win group 2. That honour should go to the T-34, although I suspect the US membership here will place the M4 above it.

    Too many people are unfortunately treating this as a best tank thread imho.
    Excellent point. Significance and influence do not equal best. MacArthur was a significant and influential US general. He was not their best.

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  • Nick the Noodle
    replied
    Originally posted by andrewza View Post
    I am not american and I see the M4 as mor signifcant than the T34. Every aliied country used it and it fought in every theater.
    That the M4 was generally a better tank than the T-34 is probably not in question most of the time. The M4 fought in every theatre, but the most important land theatre was the Eastern Front. It was on this front, the German army was destroyed.

    The most significant and influential tank on that front is the T-34, without question. It was extremely efficient, cheap as chips, and the only design I know of that an enemy thought of copying directly.

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  • Super Six 4
    replied
    Well I was thinking about voting for the Tiger at first but given the discussion, I think I'll have to go with the Churchill.

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  • panther3485
    replied
    Originally posted by Don Juan View Post
    Tiger wins poll for "attracts most viewers to History Channel".

    Can't think of any other criteria in which it excels, tbh.
    Charisma?

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  • andrewza
    replied
    Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

    Based on the criteria of the poll, the Churchill does not deserve to win group 2. That honour should go to the T-34, although I suspect the US membership here will place the M4 above it.

    Too many people are unfortunately treating this as a best tank thread imho.
    I am not american and I see the M4 as mor signifcant than the T34. Every aliied country used it and it fought in every theater.

    Leave a comment:


  • Don Juan
    replied
    Tiger wins poll for "attracts most viewers to History Channel".

    Can't think of any other criteria in which it excels, tbh.

    Leave a comment:


  • panther3485
    replied
    Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

    Based on the criteria of the poll, the Churchill does not deserve to win group 2. That honour should go to the T-34, although I suspect the US membership here will place the M4 above it.

    Too many people are unfortunately treating this as a best tank thread imho.
    I'm inclined to agree, but don't forget that this is the last Round with a "Group 2". For the next Round, Groups 1 & 2 are combined to create Group A, while Groups 3 & 4 will become Group B. And after Round 3, no more groups at all.

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  • Nick the Noodle
    replied
    Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
    Either that, Nick, or we are sending you to the Doctor because you must be feeling sick!!!

    Based on the criteria of the poll, the Churchill does not deserve to win group 2. That honour should go to the T-34, although I suspect the US membership here will place the M4 above it.

    Too many people are unfortunately treating this as a best tank thread imho.

    Leave a comment:


  • panther3485
    replied
    Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
    If I'm not voting for it in a poll, you almost certainly can be sure it does not deserve to win considering the criteria of the poll.
    Either that, Nick, or we are sending you to the Doctor because you must be feeling sick!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Nick the Noodle
    replied
    I think the Churchill was the best overall tank in WW2.
    I have ample justification for this view.

    If I'm not voting for it in a poll, you almost certainly can be sure it does not deserve to win considering the criteria of the poll.

    Leave a comment:


  • Galland
    replied
    The Tiger for me....

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  • smallvillekalel
    replied
    Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
    No.

    Most Churchills were better than any Tiger on the most important elements. Tactical mobility might actually be the best feature of the Churchill, a lesson the Nazi's never really learned. An obvious example is that Churchill's (those which were able to cross the beach) climbed the sea wall at Dieppe, something that no German WW2 tank could ever do was lost on them. They were shocked from Tunisia 43 and still in Germany 45 at the Churchills ability to cross bad ground.

    Churchills were really the Grand-daddy of specialist engineering afv's as well.

    However, Tigers are the most well known tanks today. They represent what a TANK is supposed to be in the publics eye. The public don't care if Patton would have actually failed during Cobra with Panthers and Tigers instead of Shermans. The public like big and impressive. That means politicians tend to like big and impressive. Tigers win here.
    There he is! Thanks for joining in Nick! If nothing else, I've learned of the magnificent mobility of the Churchill from you! +1

    I liken the Churchill to the modern day smart device. Instead of, "there's an app for that!" It's, "there's a Churchill mod for that!"

    Leave a comment:


  • Nick the Noodle
    replied
    Originally posted by Dibble201Bty View Post
    Did the Tiger have better mobility than the Churchill?

    Paul
    No.

    Most Churchills were better than any Tiger on the most important elements. Tactical mobility might actually be the best feature of the Churchill, a lesson the Nazi's never really learned. An obvious example is that Churchill's (those which were able to cross the beach) climbed the sea wall at Dieppe, something that no German WW2 tank could ever do was lost on them. They were shocked from Tunisia 43 and still in Germany 45 at the Churchills ability to cross bad ground.

    Churchills were really the Grand-daddy of specialist engineering afv's as well.

    However, Tigers are the most well known tanks today. They represent what a TANK is supposed to be in the publics eye. The public don't care if Patton would have actually failed during Cobra with Panthers and Tigers instead of Shermans. The public like big and impressive. That means politicians tend to like big and impressive. Tigers win here.

    Leave a comment:


  • broderickwells
    replied
    Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
    Versatility, with the 'funnies'?
    I'll go with that.

    Leave a comment:


  • panther3485
    replied
    Originally posted by broderickwells View Post
    Can't think what the Churchill convinced everybody was important.
    Versatility, with the 'funnies'?

    Leave a comment:

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