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  • Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
    Most people have voted for what they consider the most I/S tank based on actual tank elements. It also has been obvious that a few have voted on other factors. However, these have not effected the final outcome, only the margin of the FT victory.



    Now I do. Its been part of the learning curve .
    Prove that people voted for the Renault just because of Patton's picture. It's time to put up or shut up. All this carping over supposed bias is getting rather tiresome. I've always found you to be a good poster but this is getting ridiculous. The British tank lost fair and square.

    If you think that Americans voted for a French tank over a British one just to stick it to the Brits here then you haven't been reading my fellow countrymen's comments through the years on France and the French in whatever forum the subject comes up. France bashing is the norm most of the time. Maybe they voted for the Renault for the reasons stated by many of us over and over. (too many times to repeat again) It certainly wasn't because of a picture of Patton.
    Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

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    • Oh boy.
      John

      Play La Marseillaise. Play it!

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      • Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
        Prove that people voted for the Renault just because of Patton's picture. It's time to put up or shut up. All this carping over supposed bias is getting rather tiresome. I've always found you to be a good poster but this is getting ridiculous. The British tank lost fair and square.

        If you think that Americans voted for a French tank over a British one just to stick it to the Brits here then you haven't been reading my fellow countrymen's comments through the years on France and the French in whatever forum the subject comes up. France bashing is the norm most of the time. Maybe they voted for the Renault for the reasons stated by many of us over and over. (too many times to repeat again) It certainly wasn't because of a picture of Patton.
        How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
        Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

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        • Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
          For example the 1923 Vickers Medium Mk 1, looked even more like a modern tank, and included a proper 3 man turret.
          Not really for the Mk.I. It had a 5-man crew composed of TC, gunner, driver, and two machine gunners. The driver was at the front, of course, the TC and gunner were in the turret, and according to Fletcher the two machine gunners had to assume "a sort of half-crouching, half-kneeling position to serve their weapons" which were ball-mounted in the hull sides.

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          • Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
            That's one way out of it I guess.
            Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

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            • That was fun.

              And if you can have fun while learning new things, what's not to like?

              I see that all of the pairings have now been unlocked so you can continue your favorite discussions.

              Enjoy, ribbon is in the works.
              Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

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              • Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
                That's one way out of it I guess.

                There are several reasons I used the gif. I more than suspect you know some of them, and five immediately come to mind. The fact that you are one of those exotic voting posters is one of them as well. Hence the tone of your post before this .

                I can go into much further depth if you like. I've just had a stomach operation, and am at home and bored. Really bored. If you want a cerebral clash I'm happy.

                I had already called it a day on this poll, and was thinking about some of votes which may have been wrong on. I certainly am going to post some real errors on my part. However, I'm bored enough to go into several voting patterns among some posters. Perhaps I'm another MKenny in the making . I was going to start with 101combatvets votes but I'm happy to start with you.

                BTW, you said that you think my posts are usually good, you were the first poster to neg rep me. Mountain Man was next, shortly followed by PMIII but what can you expect? It should be mentioned I was a newbie at the time.
                Originally posted by DogDodger View Post
                Not really for the Mk.I. It had a 5-man crew composed of TC, gunner, driver, and two machine gunners. The driver was at the front, of course, the TC and gunner were in the turret, and according to Fletcher the two machine gunners had to assume "a sort of half-crouching, half-kneeling position to serve their weapons" which were ball-mounted in the hull sides.
                This is why I am out of my comfort zone when analyzing tanks not from WW2. I had not considered the crew layout in the turret. It is in fact one of the reasons why I dismiss the KV-1 as a good tank. If the Vickers Medium Mk1/II had had a proper 3 man turret, ie Commander, gunner and loader, I should have voted for it above many other tanks. It looks pretty modern, but it is actually style over substance. Also when WW1 shows that you need more than 12mm of armour and it generally has less then 7mm, then its design can be considered less than effective.
                How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
                Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

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                • Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
                  Prove that people voted for the Renault just because of Patton's picture. It's time to put up or shut up. All this carping over supposed bias is getting rather tiresome. I've always found you to be a good poster but this is getting ridiculous. The British tank lost fair and square.

                  If you think that Americans voted for a French tank over a British one just to stick it to the Brits here then you haven't been reading my fellow countrymen's comments through the years on France and the French in whatever forum the subject comes up. France bashing is the norm most of the time. Maybe they voted for the Renault for the reasons stated by many of us over and over. (too many times to repeat again) It certainly wasn't because of a picture of Patton.
                  "The British Tank lost fair and square".

                  When will people realise that the national origin of a particular tank has absolutely NOTHING TO DO with any objective assessment as to a particular vehicle's impact on its influence on the development of Armoured Fighting Vehicles.
                  "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
                  Samuel Johnson.

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                  • Originally posted by BELGRAVE View Post
                    "The British Tank lost fair and square".
                    Only because the French Tank cheated.
                    “When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.”
                    ― Groucho Marx

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                    • Originally posted by BELGRAVE View Post
                      "The British Tank lost fair and square".

                      When will people realise that the national origin of a particular tank has absolutely NOTHING TO DO with any objective assessment as to a particular vehicle's impact on its influence on the development of Armoured Fighting Vehicles.
                      John

                      Play La Marseillaise. Play it!

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                      • Originally posted by BELGRAVE View Post
                        "The British Tank lost fair and square".

                        When will people realise that the national origin of a particular tank has absolutely NOTHING TO DO with any objective assessment as to a particular vehicle's impact on its influence on the development of Armoured Fighting Vehicles.
                        When certain other people don't accuse other people of voting for a particular tank because of a picture of a soon to be famous person standing next to said tank. Fix that particular bugaboo and we can talk about not assigning nationality to an inanimate object.
                        Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

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                        • Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

                          There are several reasons I used the gif. I more than suspect you know some of them, and five immediately come to mind. The fact that you are one of those exotic voting posters is one of them as well. Hence the tone of your post before this .

                          I can go into much further depth if you like. I've just had a stomach operation, and am at home and bored. Really bored. If you want a cerebral clash I'm happy.

                          I had already called it a day on this poll, and was thinking about some of votes which may have been wrong on. I certainly am going to post some real errors on my part. However, I'm bored enough to go into several voting patterns among some posters. Perhaps I'm another MKenny in the making . I was going to start with 101combatvets votes but I'm happy to start with you.

                          BTW, you said that you think my posts are usually good, you were the first poster to neg rep me. Mountain Man was next, shortly followed by PMIII but what can you expect? It should be mentioned I was a newbie at the time.


                          This is why I am out of my comfort zone when analyzing tanks not from WW2. I had not considered the crew layout in the turret. It is in fact one of the reasons why I dismiss the KV-1 as a good tank. If the Vickers Medium Mk1/II had had a proper 3 man turret, ie Commander, gunner and loader, I should have voted for it above many other tanks. It looks pretty modern, but it is actually style over substance. Also when WW1 shows that you need more than 12mm of armour and it generally has less then 7mm, then its design can be considered less than effective.
                          I neg repped you? Over what? That must've been a long time ago.

                          Exotic poster huh? Almost 8 years here, over 11,000 posts and I'm an "exotic poster"? Just because I don't always comment on particular threads doesn't mean they're not being read. Kind of flabbergasted over that one.
                          Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

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                          • It's over

                            Guys, the polls are closed, the tournament is decided and the ribbon is soon to be awarded.

                            Let's not spoil it with pointless discussion over accusations or resentments that were - in themselves IMO - pointless.

                            Time to look forward to the next campaign rather than back over some trivial irritations that are now dead and buried in this one.

                            "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                            Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

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                            • Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
                              Guys, the polls are closed, the tournament is decided and the ribbon is soon to be awarded.

                              Let's not spoil it with pointless discussion over accusations or resentments that were - in themselves IMO - pointless.

                              Time to look forward to the next campaign rather than back over some trivial irritations that are now dead and buried in this one.

                              Very much agree.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
                                Guys, the polls are closed, the tournament is decided and the ribbon is soon to be awarded.

                                Let's not spoil it with pointless discussion over accusations or resentments that were - in themselves IMO - pointless.

                                Time to look forward to the next campaign rather than back over some trivial irritations that are now dead and buried in this one.

                                That doesn't seem like fun to me. We spend a lot of time discussing WWII, and that's been done and over for a long time.
                                John

                                Play La Marseillaise. Play it!

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