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Rnd 1 Grp 4 - ZTZ 99 (China) vs M1A1/A2 Abrams (USA)

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  • Rnd 1 Grp 4 - ZTZ 99 (China) vs M1A1/A2 Abrams (USA)

    Round 1, Group 4: ZTZ 99 (China) vs M1A1/A2 Abrams (USA)

    The ZTZ 99 (or “Type 99”) is China’s latest and most advanced MBT in service. It is essentially an improved version of the Type 98, which was based on the Soviet T-72 design but with very considerable adaptations and differences; not least of which were an enlargement of the hull and a completely different turret design. ZTZ 99 is a high-cost ‘premium’ tank, expected to be produced in relatively small numbers and is currently operated by certain specific units. (ZTZ 96 continues as the newest of the mainstream ‘bread-and-butter’ Chinese tanks; for the time being at least.) If the known specifications of ZTZ 99 are any guide, it is an extremely potent MBT indeed.

    To most Westerners with half a mind for military equipment, the Abrams tank barely needs an introduction. It is arguably the most famous of all current Western tanks; virtually synonymous with the idea of the modern MBT. It has performed extremely well in more than one conflict and as such can be considered a proven design. Beside the USA, a handful of other countries – including Australia – have taken the M1 tank into service. At the time of introduction, Abrams represented a significant step forward for US armoured forces and if there was any doubt about them being “at the cutting edge” before it arrived, there was certainly none afterwards. Enough said.

    Here are two very powerful modern tanks; each extremely impressive in its own right. But how significant and influential were they? Which will you choose?

    Only one of these two candidates will make it to the next round!

    Which of them is the most significant and/or influential?

    Candidate #51 - ZTZ 99 (China)

    Service Entry – Around 2001/02
    Weight – 54-58 metric tons
    Top Speed – 80 km/h (50 mph)
    Main Armament – 125mm smoothbore
    No. Produced – est. 700+ (still in production)

    For further info, check here:

    Candidate #64 - M1A1/A2 Abrams (USA)

    Service Entry – 1980/81 (initially with 105mm gun as the M1)
    Weight – 61-62 metric tons
    Top Speed – 67 km/h (42 mph) (governed)
    Main Armament – 120mm smoothbore
    No. Produced – 9,000+

    For further info, check these:

    Consider the criteria with care! You decide!

    ZTZ 99 (China)
    M1A1/A2 Abrams (USA)

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by panther3485; 29 Jun 14, 02:51.
    "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
    Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

  • #2
    This is the easiest one for me so far. The Abrams was the first of a new breed. It should take at least top spot for influential tanks post c1980.
    How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic:
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    • #3
      Abrams all the way!

      Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

      Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

      by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"


      • #4
        Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
        Abrams all the way!

        No question about it!

        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.


        • #5
          No offence to the Chinese, but the Abrams is almost as good as the Leopard II
          "... and that was the last time they called me Freakboy Moses"


          • #6
            Abrams is simply the most sophisticated and successfully battle-tested design in the world right now.
            Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?


            • #7
              Is it time to roll out the stock joke about there being a Chink in that armour?........... Ba da dum!
              I don't know enough about the ZTZ 99 to make a fair comparison (Does anybody?).
              So with my knowledge halved I must go for what is known and run with the M1 series.

              The M1.

              *Anyone recommend good reading on the ZTZ 99?*


              • #8
                A no brainer - the Abrams


                • #9
                  The ZTZ 99 is a diesel and China may have more tank crews than the US.
                  The Europa Barbarorum II team [M2TW] needs YOUR HELP NOW HERE!


                  • #10
                    "A foolish man thinks he knows everything if placed in unexpected difficulty; but he knows not what to answer, if to the test he is put."



                    • #11
                      The beast Abrams.
                      I am G.I. Jew


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Frtigern View Post
                        The ZTZ 99 is a diesel and China may have more tank crews than the US.
                        So the ZTZ 99 is more significant and influential because of a diesel engine? I wasn't aware they started that trend.
                        Кто там?
                        Это я - Почтальон Печкин!
                        Tunis is a Carthigenian city!


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Stryker 19K30 View Post
                          So the ZTZ 99 is more significant and influential because of a diesel engine? I wasn't aware they started that trend.
                          Well the M1 Abrams never started a trend with a turbine powered design. Yes, its slightly quieter when idling than a diesel, but a diesel still proves itself to be more advantageous for the rest of the world. Still not sure why the US went with a turbine.
                          The Europa Barbarorum II team [M2TW] needs YOUR HELP NOW HERE!


                          • #14
                            There were several reasons, including an advantage in acceleration over conventional diesels, less power being used for cooling, the ability to run on a larger range of fuels, easier starting in cold temperatures, being physically lighter and quieter, and no smoke emission.

                            "Slightly quieter than idling than a diesel" is a bit of an understatement, as the low-frequency sounds that diesels emit are far easier to hear over distances. I can attest first-hand that the tracks on a gas-turbine powered tank are often louder than the engine. Also, see:


                            • #15
                              M1A1/A2 Abrams gets this one.
                              "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
                              Ernest Hemingway.

                              Sapere aude.


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