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Rnd 1 Grp 4 - Merkava I/II/III/IV (Israel) vs T-72 & T-90 (Russia)

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Super Six 4 View Post
    Well now that's the thing. The Merk does of course have some unique features, though I'm going in large part off of popularity in a way.

    Look at this map (it's big so I don't want to stretch the page into oblivion by posting it):

    That is all of the T-72 operators. It was (unless they still do) made in Russia but now is used in and in some cases made from Russia to Ukraine to Poland to India to Malaysia and Venezuela.

    By contrast the Merk is made in Israel and Israel. Which is certainly not a bad thing at all--they're making what they believe will work best for them and Bob's your uncle, but The T-72 and now T-90 to me seems more significant because of the amount of operators and producers.

    Also something I take into account with the "more significant" idea is "which do you think of more immediately?" This doesn't always work because some of the tanks I don't think most people would think of that quickly, but still. Like if I asked you "start listing off tank names." Of course now, depending on what polls you were just considering, those might pop into your head first! But anyways. Like say with WWI tanks, there have been several on here that I'd never heard of--but a few that I had. Most people if asked to name some WWI tanks (assuming they had some basic knowledge) would probably say the British Mark tanks which are rather iconic, probably the A7V, and my guess would be the Rennault as well. That's sort of what I mean. And as for the polls involving those tanks, I believe that is sorta the way they're going

    Oops I thought I had multiquoted with Vikram's post as well but it didn'

    @Vikram - that's what I was thinking. And nice pic.
    Yep, you can certainly see it that way and many others will agree with you. And you definitely have very good reasons formed into a solid and convincing argument. However, IMO it is not the only viable argument that can be made with such conviction.

    In my case, I consider the Merkava kind of extra special because of the way it developed and the circumstances under which it all happened, as well as for what it developed into. I don't think any other nation in modern times - let alone such a small nation with so severely limited domestic material resources as Israel - has had to develop a truly potent and competitive, top-notch World-class MBT under anything like that kind of pressure. I'd go so far as to say that most countries today couldn't even imagine what it would be like to have to do that.

    To my mind, the very uniqueness of that high-pressure situation and the exceptional effectiveness of what was developed to meet it, are of very great significance in their own (but admittedly different) way. The hottest of crucibles has given birth to a truly amazing MBT from what was - relatively speaking - a very constrained and severely challenged resource base.

    We are not talking about a large powerful country with a massive industrial base that is rich in native resources, and has plenty of opportunity for peacetime Research & Development without the pressure or immediate threat of war on its very doorstep all the time.

    Now to me, and especially considering that the Merkava has turned out to be as good as it is, THAT combination of factors is highly significant in its own right.
    Last edited by panther3485; 25 Jul 14, 10:09.
    "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)


    • #47
      Can't really argue with you (not that we were, just discussing), there! It's a pretty special tank in the modern era here. And "special" can certainly be translated to "significant," if not "influential" as well.

      To my knowledge there aren't any new tank designs being planned in the world that involve an APC element. But maybe soon enough we will. In that case the Merk would be influential without a doubt.
      "A foolish man thinks he knows everything if placed in unexpected difficulty; but he knows not what to answer, if to the test he is put."



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