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Rnd 1 Grp 4 - Leclerc (France) vs T-64 (Russia)

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  • vikram72
    replied
    Voted for Leclerc.

    Wonderful Design by French in memory of General Philippe Leclerc.

    In all a modern Tank, Has not seen action but i feel it will do better in battle field, provided it has the opportunity.

    T-64 a veteran but from a different era, it has brought forward excellent designs by Russian based on its experience.




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  • Merkava188
    replied
    The Leclerc is a good design but, hasn't seen combat whereas the T-64 is an ugly looking tank but has seen more combat than the Leclerc.

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  • ole timer
    replied
    T-64 (Russia)

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  • panther3485
    replied
    Originally posted by JBark View Post
    The Leclerc seems to have a number of innovative and unique features. I should think that would make it significant.
    I'm inclined to agree.

    The T-64, for its time of introduction, also had some very advanced features but I have already given it credit for that, with my vote in the time bracket where it first came into service (Group 3); which I think is fair enough. Speaking only for myself of course, but I wasn't going to give it the same again here, in Group 4. There can be no doubt that the Russian tank has had - and arguably continues to have - greater influence. However, the package of features carried by Leclerc is - IMO - highly credit-worthy in this particular time group and deserves considerable recognition for its significance.

    I guess the question would be whether the Influence of the T-64 out-weighs the significance of Leclerc's feature package for this time group. I could see very early in the process that T-64 would be most likely to win this poll but I wanted to give recognition to the (IMO) highly potent and quite remarkable combination of assets of the Leclerc.

    As you said just before, members are invited to exercise their discretion and interpretation as they see fit; and I have done so here even though I can see there is still a very strong case to be made for the T-64. I just don't think it is quite so much head-and-shoulders above Leclerc as the voting over the first few days had suggested; and in terms of vote percentage the French tank seems to have picked up a bit more ground recently.

    Last edited by panther3485; 12 Jul 14, 00:01.

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  • JBark
    replied
    Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post
    The Leclerc is superior in every way except influence and significance. It's just another modern MBT.
    The Leclerc seems to have a number of innovative and unique features. I should think that would make it significant.

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  • JBark
    replied
    Originally posted by Stryker 19K30 View Post
    Not the criteria of the poll.
    If you read carefully the criteria are up to the interpretation of the individual.

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  • panther3485
    replied
    Swimming against the tide again ...

    To my mind, there can be no question that the T-64 series has been more influential than Leclerc. However, there's something about the Leclerc's combination of advanced features, superbly efficient auto-loader and innovative designed-in armour packaging options that gets me in. To my thinking, this package of features should get more recognition for its significance. I'm going with the French tank on this one.

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  • Super Six 4
    replied
    Ditto on T-64. Not much I can add that hasn't been said.

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  • Gixxer86g
    replied
    The Leclerc is superior in every way except influence and significance. It's just another modern MBT.

    The T64 get's the vote.

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  • Stryker 19K30
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    I go with the LeClerc. The Russians are stuck on the same basic design theories and their tanks have been outclassed for some time now.
    Not the criteria of the poll.

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  • Mountain Man
    replied
    I go with the LeClerc. The Russians are stuck on the same basic design theories and their tanks have been outclassed for some time now.

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  • nikolas93TS
    replied
    T-64 was a revolutionary tank. It was a first true MBT in Soviet categorization, and for many years it have remained a Soviet premier tank that NATO feared, as well the basis for all following Soviet and Russian designs.

    It have included composite armor, automatic loader, fire-control system and whole series of novelties.

    On the other hand Leclerc was a latecomer, when M1, Leopard 2 and T-80 were in service for almoust more than a decade.

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  • flash
    replied
    Originally posted by Stryker 19K30 View Post
    The T-64 has seen action - it was used in Chechnya, and in fact it is very possible as you are reading this a T-64 is actively engaging in combat.
    Quite so and my apologies.

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  • Stryker 19K30
    replied
    Originally posted by sebfrench76 View Post
    Don't get me wrong:I don't give a s..t to the Leclerc,really.
    I was just upset to see him compared to an obsolete tank,wich made my french arrogance speak with not very subtile words.
    Being obsolete is relative and has no impact on influence and significance.

    Just wait and watch the fireworks when Abrams Leo and Challenger have to face off. National arrogance will take over there. Especially since all 3 tanks are pretty dead equal and have almost been developed in concert.

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  • sebfrench76
    replied
    Don't get me wrong:I don't give a s..t to the Leclerc,really.
    I was just upset to see him compared to an obsolete tank,wich made my french arrogance speak with not very subtile words.

    Leave a comment:

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