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Rnd 1 Grp 4 - Leopard 2 (Germany) vs T-80 (Russia)

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Torien View Post
    I'm certainly no expert in this field, but I seem to remember that NATO changed it's anti-tank warfare strategy to include more attack helicopters and missiles to specifically combat the anticipated waves of T-80's that were going to stream down the Fulda Gap...

    Did anyone on the opposing side of the Leo-2 make similar preparations?
    I wonder if that is what the Hind Gunships were intended for
    BoRG
    "... and that was the last time they called me Freakboy Moses"

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Arthwys View Post
      I wonder if that is what the Hind Gunships were intended for
      Fair point. However, wasn't the Hind created before the Leo-2 (or the T-80) and more as a flying tank/assault helicopter, than any particular tank killer?

      And my point was more toward doctrine than any specific weapon. Trying to make the case for influence/significance.

      I'm also fighting a very useless battle as the T-80 is losing here by a 10-1 margin... lol!

      History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon. Napoleon Bonaparte
      _________
      BoRG
      __________
      "I am Arthur, King of the Britons!"

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      • #18
        Sounds like T-80 may have an edge in influence from what Torien said but the Leo seems like it might have an edge in significance.

        I think the T-80 also had some influence on the T-90. Apparently the Russians came to abhor the turbine engine of the T-80 and so perhaps for the T-90 that was an influence all on it's own when it came to designing the powerplant. I believe they also carried over some other stuff too.

        I'd say the Leopard is better though.

        Hmm....something's pulling me towards the T-80 and I don't know why. Heck with it, I'll vote for it because I don't have all day and there's lots more to vote on!
        "A foolish man thinks he knows everything if placed in unexpected difficulty; but he knows not what to answer, if to the test he is put."

        --Hávamál

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        • #19
          I had to vote Leo 2, Home Team
          Some days your the bug, some days your the windshield.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Torien View Post
            I'm also fighting a very useless battle as the T-80 is losing here by a 10-1 margin... lol!

            I'm still undecided on this one. Would you like some virtual company?

            Too bad we cannot meet up for real once again
            BoRG

            You may not be interested in War, but War is interested in You - Leon Trotski, June 1919.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Major Sennef View Post
              I'm still undecided on this one. Would you like some virtual company?

              Too bad we cannot meet up for real once again
              Thanks Jeroen. I should be able to visit you guys next year. I'll try to arrange my schedule (and finances!) so I will be over there after your next tour of duty.
              History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon. Napoleon Bonaparte
              _________
              BoRG
              __________
              "I am Arthur, King of the Britons!"

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              • #22
                I went for the Leo but it was a hard decision.
                Honestly, i haven't read much about modern MBT, so i had to rely on Wiki.
                One thing tipped my (in)decision to the Leo:
                it passed its main gun - the 120-mm-Glattrohrkanone - to the M1 Abrams which is probably the most battle-hardened/proved MBT in the World.
                One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Torien View Post
                  Thanks Jeroen. I should be able to visit you guys next year. I'll try to arrange my schedule (and finances!) so I will be over there after your next tour of duty.
                  Great prospect Torien. I have continued via PM
                  BoRG

                  You may not be interested in War, but War is interested in You - Leon Trotski, June 1919.

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                  • #24
                    The Leopard 2 gets another vote from me.
                    "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
                    Ernest Hemingway.

                    Sapere aude.

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                    • #25
                      IMO,

                      ... Leopard 2 takes this one out, in significance for being an outstanding MBT - one of the top handful in the World - that has kept up-to-date with well designed upgrades to be just as highly competitive now as when first introduced to service; if not more so.

                      In terms of influence as such, I don't see much margin between it and the T-80.

                      Leopard 2 it is.
                      "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                      Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

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                      • #26
                        I like the Leopard II in fact I think the whole Leopard family both I and II are very good tanks. They've both done very well in there first combat operations with NATO in Afghanistan and with the way things are going in the Crimea we may see how the Leopard as well as the Abrams and Challenger fare against the T-80 of which little is known.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Merkava188 View Post
                          I like the Leopard II in fact I think the whole Leopard family both I and II are very good tanks. They've both done very well in there first combat operations with NATO in Afghanistan and with the way things are going in the Crimea we may see how the Leopard as well as the Abrams and Challenger fare against the T-80 of which little is known.
                          Most common Russian tank is T-72, followed by T-90. T-80 is practically not used anymore, since they are totally relegated to reserve, while T-62 and T-64 are being scrapped. Even new T-90 orders are put on hold in anticipation of new "Armata" or "T-99" tank, which should be introduced in 2015/2016.

                          Already in 1993 Russians have opted for T-90, mostly for economical reasons of running parallel MBT designs but also because of the spare parts being made in Ukraine. Another often quoted reason is that T-80 autoloader was more exposed to T-72 because the rounds are stored vertically.
                          It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.

                          Косово је Србија!
                          Never go to war with a country whose national holiday celebrates a defeat in 1389.

                          Armored Brigade

                          Armored Brigade Facebook page

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                          • #28
                            Leopard 2 (Germany)

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                            • #29
                              voted for Leopard 2,

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