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Rnd 1 Grp 4 - Leopard 2 (Germany) vs T-80 (Russia)

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  • Rnd 1 Grp 4 - Leopard 2 (Germany) vs T-80 (Russia)

    Round 1, Group 4: Leopard 2 (Germany) vs T-80 (Russia)


    Germany’s Leopard 2 is widely regarded as one of the World’s finest modern MBTs and it has seen some limited action in Kosovo and Afghanistan. Leopard 2 has been continually improved since its introduction to service in 1979/80 and aside from Germany, this tank is in service with at least 15 different countries. It combines the key attributes of firepower, mobility and protection to a well-balanced and high degree.

    The T-80 was the first mass-produced MBT in the World to enter service with a gas turbine as its main power plant. However, there were issues with these engines including their prodigious appetite for fuel. Some later variants of T-80 were fitted with diesel engines and Ukraine developed its own sub-types. Several countries outside of the former USSR have taken the T-80 into service.

    Which of these two types deserves to be with us for Round 2?


    Only one of these two candidates will make it to the next round!

    Which of them is the most significant and/or influential?



    Candidate #53 - Leopard 2 (Germany)

    Service Entry – 1979/80
    Weight – 55 – 62.3 metric tons
    Top Speed – 72 km/h (45 mph)
    Main Armament – 120mm smoothbore
    No. Produced – 3,200+

    For further info, check here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_2
    http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/leo2.htm














    Candidate #62 - T-80 (Russia)

    Service Entry – late 1976
    Weight – 42.5 - 46 metric tons
    Top Speed – 70 km/h (43 mph)
    Main Armament – 125mm smoothbore
    No. Produced – 5,500 (approx.)

    For further info, check these:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-80
    http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/T-80U.htm















    Consider the criteria with care! You decide!


    93
    Leopard 2 (Germany)
    88.17%
    82
    T-80 (Russia)
    11.83%
    11

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by Skoblin; 27 Jun 14, 11:59.
    "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
    Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

  • #2
    Went Leopard 2 if only due to its sales success.
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    • #3
      I think the Leopard II is a better tank.

      Pruitt
      Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

      Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

      by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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      • #4
        Two words: German engineering
        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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        • #5
          Leopard II. It's simply one of the best AFVs in existence today.
          BoRG
          "... and that was the last time they called me Freakboy Moses"

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          • #6
            I know that I'm in the minority on this one... but we are to assess influence and significance. The T-80 in the hands of the Soviet Empire and it's allies (and customers) was vastly feared. And also inspired most of the world to re-engineer it's tanks and anti-tank weaponry to address destroying it.

            The Leopard 2, although an outstanding tank, has done little to influence world events.

            Just my little, humble, opinion...
            History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon. Napoleon Bonaparte
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            • #7
              This was a tough one, as both tanks were contemporaries and gun- and armor-wise there was little practical difference between them. Leopard 2 has had greater export success and will remained in front-line service longer, while T-80 is being phased out. T-80 was the first tank in service with a gas turbine engine, though, and like Torien I'm inclined to believe it had a greater impact on other countries' designs than Leopard 2. It's almost a coin flip, I think, but in the end T-80's service as the "premium" tank of the USSR during the latter part of the Cold War tips the balance in my opinion.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                Two words: German over engineering
                Not always a compliment in warfare

                But in this case, German engineering on it's finest.
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                • #9
                  Had to vote Leopard 2 - the Germans make very fine tanks.
                  Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                  • #10
                    I'm going to vote based on my personal experiences here.

                    Both tanks played a major part in my active military service period at the North German plain during the last years of the Cold War.
                    The Leopard-II formed the main component of the trust inspiring tank battalions at my infantry battalion's flanks. My cavalry fellow officers assured me that it was utterly dependable.Watching them at the ranges at Bergen-Hohne I could understand what they were talking about.

                    T-80 was the main adversary. Wisdom amongst us, young officers, at that time had it that the T-80 was perhaps the lesser tank, but they were far more numerous than what NATO had on Leo-II's on our side. The qualitative superiority of the Leo-II would be overcome by the quantitative superiority of the T-80.
                    BoRG

                    You may not be interested in War, but War is interested in You - Leon Trotski, June 1919.

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                    • #11
                      To be truthful all I know of the T80 is what has been printed,I haven't read any combat reports or first hand accounts so this choice must therefore be "on paper".
                      I believe the T80 to be more effective than generally given credit for but has it the same level of FCS as the Leo 2?
                      I just don't see it.

                      Leopard 2,by a whisker.

                      *Can anyone recommend good reading on the T80?*

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Torien View Post
                        I know that I'm in the minority on this one... but we are to assess influence and significance. The T-80 in the hands of the Soviet Empire and it's allies (and customers) was vastly feared. And also inspired most of the world to re-engineer it's tanks and anti-tank weaponry to address destroying it.

                        The Leopard 2, although an outstanding tank, has done little to influence world events.

                        Just my little, humble, opinion...
                        Well said. You convinced me. I have to admit I do not really care how good the tank is.

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                        • #13
                          Leo 2 all the way. It may not be influential, but being quite possibly the best tank in the world is certainly significant.
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Torien View Post
                            I know that I'm in the minority on this one... but we are to assess influence and significance. The T-80 in the hands of the Soviet Empire and it's allies (and customers) was vastly feared. And also inspired most of the world to re-engineer it's tanks and anti-tank weaponry to address destroying it.

                            The Leopard 2, although an outstanding tank, has done little to influence world events.

                            Just my little, humble, opinion...
                            Still haven't voted on this one.
                            Quality (Leo-2) vs. quantity, that has a quality of its own(T-80)
                            BoRG

                            You may not be interested in War, but War is interested in You - Leon Trotski, June 1919.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Major Sennef View Post
                              Still haven't voted on this one.
                              Quality (Leo-2) vs. quantity, that has a quality of its own(T-80)
                              I'm certainly no expert in this field, but I seem to remember that NATO changed it's anti-tank warfare strategy to include more attack helicopters and missiles to specifically combat the anticipated waves of T-80's that were going to stream down the Fulda Gap...

                              Did anyone on the opposing side of the Leo-2 make similar preparations?
                              History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon. Napoleon Bonaparte
                              _________
                              BoRG
                              __________
                              "I am Arthur, King of the Britons!"

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