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Rnd 1 Grp 4 - ZTZ 96 (China) vs Type 90 (Japan)

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  • Rnd 1 Grp 4 - ZTZ 96 (China) vs Type 90 (Japan)

    Round 1, Group 4: ZTZ 96 (China) vs Type 90 (Japan)


    The Chinese ZTZ 96 (otherwise known as “Type 96”) is a relatively recent tank developed from the Type 85, which was itself developed from the type 80. The Type 80 in turn traces its heritage and basic concepts back a few more steps to the Soviet T-54 design. However, along the way there have been so many changes that the ZTZ 96, and arguably the Type 85 series before it, deserve to be considered as new AFVs in their own right. ZTZ 96 is an important tank in the Chinese inventory and is used by about half a dozen other countries.

    The Japanese Type 90 (Kyu-Maru) has a somewhat more ‘western like’ appearance which will not be surprising when we learn that there was considerable input from the German Krauss-Maffei and MaK companies. It was conceived and designed as a replacement primarily for the ageing Type 61. There is now also the brand new Japanese Type 10 tank which is being phased into service at the present but this will probably not entirely supersede the Type 90 for some considerable time yet. Unlike ZTZ 96, Type 90 was not marketed for export; being purely for domestic use in accordance with policy.

    These are both quite impressive tanks, but what's their relative significance or influence? Which do you think should go on to Round 2?


    Only one of these two candidates will make it to the next round!

    Which of them is the most significant and/or influential?



    Candidate #50 - ZTZ 96 (China)

    Service Entry – Around 1997
    Weight – 42-43 metric tons
    Top Speed – 65 km/h (40 mph)
    Main Armament – 125mm smoothbore
    No. Produced – 2,000+ (est)

    For further info, check here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_96
    http://www.military-today.com/tanks/type_96.htm











    Candidate #56 - Type 90 (Japan)

    Service Entry – 1992
    Weight – 50 metric tons
    Top Speed – 70 km/h (43.5 mph)
    Main Armament – 120mm smoothbore
    No. Produced – 341

    For further info, check these:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_90_Ky%C5%AB-maru
    http://www.military-today.com/tanks/type_90.htm













    Consider the criteria with care! You decide!




    85
    ZTZ 96 (China)
    43.53%
    37
    Type 90 (Japan)
    56.47%
    48

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by panther3485; 29 Jun 14, 03:46.
    "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

  • #2
    Haven't got a clue on this pairing so went Chinese based on numbers produced alone.
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    • #3
      I don't like re-designs based on a 50's design.

      Pruitt
      Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
        Haven't got a clue on this pairing so went Chinese based on numbers produced alone.
        AFAIK, policy does not allow the Japanese to sell their domestic tank designs for export but yes, the fact that the Chinese tank can and has been sold to other countries - and produced in larger numbers - certainly is a factor that could weigh in its favour IMO.
        Last edited by panther3485; 29 Jun 14, 11:20.
        "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
          I don't like re-designs based on a 50's design.

          Pruitt
          I hear ya.


          However, members who have not yet voted should bear in mind that the ZTZ 96 represents so many changes (including some inspired more by the T-72 than the older Soviet tanks) that unlike the Chinese Types 59, 69, 79 & 80 it no longer bears any resemblance to those old T-54 based machines. I seriously doubt you'd find any substantial physical parts in common between a T-59 and the ZTZ 96. That's why I put it up as an effectively new tank in its own right. The older Chinese tanks, which are little more than knock-offs of Soviet designs, were not considered as candidates. Indeed, the credit for all such derivatives goes to those old Soviet tanks.

          This applies to almost the same extent re the Chinese ZTZ 99, in terms of it no longer substantially being little more than a derivative of T-72. It's different enough to be duly considered a new design, IMO.
          Last edited by panther3485; 29 Jun 14, 11:19.
          "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

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          • #6
            Umm.. the Chinese because I like the paint job?
            Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

            That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Rojik View Post
              Umm.. the Chinese because I like the paint job?
              IIRC, a computer-generated paint job, no less. But then that's probably quite normal these days.
              "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

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              • #8
                Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
                IIRC, a computer-generated paint job, no less. But then that's probably quite normal these days.
                And probably stolen from the West too
                Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

                That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

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                • #9
                  My vote was simply against the Japanese tank from anecdotal experience of working with Japanese tankers and their tanks constantly being deadlined. Probably not a true representation of the tank, I just remember their company was running like 25% FMC in the week we worked with them.
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                  • #10
                    I went with the Japanese. The Chinese are hopeless copiers, whereas the Japanese were learning from the ground up. Their design will affect all future Japanese designs.

                    Although without combat testing, its hard to say.
                    Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                    • #11
                      Although there are definite design elements reminiscent of the early Leo II and M1 designs, that I find intriguing. I think the Japanese have a better product.
                      BoRG
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                      • #12
                        I reckon that the Japanese tank would help out Godzilla better.

                        Paul
                        ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
                        All human ills he can subdue,
                        Or with a bauble or medal
                        Can win mans heart for you;
                        And many a blessing know to stew
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Rojik View Post
                          Umm.. the Chinese because I like the paint job?
                          Absolutely !
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                          • #14
                            Type 90. The Western influence is clear in the design, and Western tanks on the whole out-perform Soviet-based designs.

                            While the Chinese have manufactured a lot of their tanks, that is not a criteria for success. The Chinese maintain a huge standing army, so they need a lot of tanks, and they are intended to fend of the Russians, so they need even more since both regard their troops as expendable and both favor the large formation sledge hammer assault. The Chinese tank, however, has not been tested against current Western designs on any battlefield.
                            Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                            • #15
                              I'll go with Rimmer on this one.

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