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Rnd 1 Grp 3 - T-72 (Soviet Union/Russia) vs M60/M60A1 (USA)

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  • Rnd 1 Grp 3 - T-72 (Soviet Union/Russia) vs M60/M60A1 (USA)

    Round 1, Group 3: T-72 (Soviet Union/Russia) vs M60/M60A1 (USA)


    This poll has the T-72, in its variants, all lined up against the M60/M60A1/A3

    I don’t think there’s a need to say much here. Both tanks have been built in large numbers, exported widely, and used over a number of decades in many conflicts.

    Seen within the boundaries and context of their respective parent nation’s basic tank design philosophy, each type can essentially be seen as relatively conventional and workmanlike.

    And yet, in other ways they are still very different from each other; perfectly representing two quite different approaches to tank design.


    You guys will need to decide: Which of these famous tanks most deserves to survive Round 1?



    Only one of these two candidates will make it to the next round!

    Which of them is the most significant and/or influential?



    Candidate #42 - T-72 (Soviet Union/Russia)

    Service Entry – 1973/74
    Weight – 41.5 metric tons
    Top Speed – 60 km/h (37 mph)
    Main Armament – 125mm smoothbore
    No. Produced – 25,000+

    For further info, check here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-72
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-72_op...s_and_variants











    Candidate #48 - M60/M60A1 (USA)

    Service Entry – 1961 (M60) 1962/63 (M60A1) 1978 (M60A3)
    Weight – 46-52 tons
    Top Speed – 48 km/h (30 mph)
    Main Armament – 105mm gun
    No. Produced – 15,000+

    For further info, check these:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M60_Patton
    http://www.army-technology.com/projects/m60/













    Consider the criteria with care! You decide!

    91
    T-72 (Soviet Union/Russia)
    65.93%
    60
    M60/M60A1 (USA)
    34.07%
    31

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by panther3485; 29 Jun 14, 02:31.
    "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
    Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

  • #2
    Tough choice. Went M60 as introduced earlier.
    How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
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    • #3
      I like the T-72 main gun better. If we are talking American manned M-60A3, versus third world nation manned T-72, I might change my vote.

      Pruitt
      Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

      Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

      by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
        I like the T-72 main gun better. If we are talking American manned M-60A3, versus third world nation manned T-72, I might change my vote.

        Pruitt
        I see what you mean. This being about the significance and influence of the two competing tank types; if members think either of them had its significance favourably or adversely affected by crew quality (to a significant degree compared to the other), then that would be up to them to weight their decision accordingly. However, I think members should also bear in mind - as you obviously have - that both tanks have been used by a considerable number of nations over a long period of time; so I think the crew quality for both is also likely to have been highly variable.
        "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
        Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

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        • #5
          Even though the TTS(AN/VSG-2) is a much better thermal sight than the TIS on the M1, the TTS only being on a variant of a variant puts The T-72 over the top for me. Now if you had included the M-60A2...
          Кто там?
          Это я - Почтальон Печкин!
          Tunis is a Carthigenian city!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Stryker 19K30 View Post
            Even though the TTS(AN/VSG-2) is a much better thermal sight than the TIS on the M1, the TTS only being on a variant of a variant puts The T-72 over the top for me. Now if you had included the M-60A2...
            Interesting point. I originally weeded out the M60A2 on the basis that it wasn't much success, and therefore not likely to be of much account in terms of significance or influence one way or the other in this poll ... but then, maybe I should have just left it in there anyway. Ah well ...
            "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
            Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
              Interesting point. I originally weeded out the M60A2 on the basis that it wasn't much success, and therefore not likely to be of much account in terms of significance or influence one way or the other in this poll ... but then, maybe I should have just left it in there anyway. Ah well ...
              The M60A2 is to me as the M3 is to Purist
              Кто там?
              Это я - Почтальон Печкин!
              Tunis is a Carthigenian city!

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              • #8
                This is a tough grouping. Both deserve to make it to the latter stages. I think the T-72... just.
                Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

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                • #9
                  The Shilleleigh Missile system in the M-60A2 had a dead zone where you could not control the missile below 700 yards. The main gun could fire a 152mm APHE round out to 500 yards. Notice they could not fire between 500 and 700 yards? The good news is I don't thing the fire computer would shake itself to pieces on the M-60A2 like it would the Sheridan.

                  Pruitt
                  Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                  Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                  by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Stryker 19K30 View Post
                    The M60A2 is to me as the M3 is to Purist
                    OK, gotcha.
                    "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                    Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Rojik View Post
                      This is a tough grouping. Both deserve to make it to the latter stages. I think the T-72... just.
                      Don't panic just yet. The M60 series gets another go in one of the other polls.
                      "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                      Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

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                      • #12
                        The M-60 was a better tank, and the lessons learned went on into the M-1, whereas the T-72 represented the last great effort by the USSR before it folded.
                        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                        • #13
                          Again, the influence the T-72 had, not only in design ideas for it's creators, but in responses from it's opponents gives the T-72 the edge I think.
                          BoRG
                          "... and that was the last time they called me Freakboy Moses"

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                            I like the T-72 main gun better. If we are talking American manned M-60A3, versus third world nation manned T-72, I might change my vote.

                            Pruitt
                            Agreed to a point! I don't know enough about the 125mm gun though.

                            Paul
                            ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
                            All human ills he can subdue,
                            Or with a bauble or medal
                            Can win mans heart for you;
                            And many a blessing know to stew
                            To make a megloamaniac bright;
                            Give honour to the dainty Corse,
                            The Pixie is a little shite.

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                            • #15
                              In a single tank v tank dual the result would be very,very close, given crews of equal quality.

                              I went for the T-72: just.
                              "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
                              Samuel Johnson.

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