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Rnd 1 Grp 2 - Char B1/B1-bis (France) vs KV Tanks (Soviet Union/Russia)

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  • Rnd 1 Grp 2 - Char B1/B1-bis (France) vs KV Tanks (Soviet Union/Russia)

    Round 1, Group 2: Char B1/B1-bis (France) vs KV Tanks (Soviet Union/Russia)


    The Char B1 was an extremely potent tank, with thicker armour and more gun-power than most if not all likely adversaries in the opening stages of WW2. It was the most powerful tank to actively oppose the Germans in 1940. It was also quite advanced and sophisticated for its time, despite being a little bit reminiscent of some WW1 tanks in terms of its appearance.

    By contrast, the Soviet KV tanks were modern in appearance. As of their entry into service, they were the most formidable heavy tanks in the World although they left something to be desired in the area of mechanical reliability – a deficit that was never fully addressed. The KV tanks served as the basis for their successors, the IS tanks and this may be the greatest significance of the series.

    So, what’s your decision? Which of these two giants of their day has had the greatest significance or influence?

    Only one of these two candidates will make it to the next round!

    Which of them is the most significant and/or influential?


    Candidate #22 - Char B1/B1-bis (France)

    Service Entry – 1936/37
    Weight – 28-31 metric tons
    Top Speed – 28 km/h (17 mph)
    Main Armament – 75mm gun
    No. Produced – 405

    For further info, check Wiki here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Char_B1











    Candidate #29 - KV Tanks (Soviet Union/Russia)

    Active Service Entry – 1939/40
    Weight – 45 metric tons ~ (KV-1 - varied with model)
    Top Speed – 35 km/h (22 mph)
    Main Armament – 76.2 mm gun
    No. Produced – 5,200 (approx.)

    For further info, see Wiki here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kliment_Voroshilov_tank







    KV-2





    Consider the criteria with care! You decide!

    90
    Char B1/B1-bis (France)
    15.56%
    14
    KV Tanks (Soviet Union/Russia)
    84.44%
    76

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by panther3485; 29 Jun 14, 01:47.
    "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
    Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

  • #2
    While the Char1's were a capable enough AFV that the Germans employed them after conquering France, they were notoriously complicated systems. The KV-1 on the other hand were effective and more user friendly from the crew standpoint.
    BoRG
    "... and that was the last time they called me Freakboy Moses"

    Comment


    • #3
      KV1. The first real, practical 'heavy' tank. The Char B1 a dead rubber of prewar designs.

      Paul
      Last edited by Dibble201Bty; 29 Jun 14, 14:57.
      ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
      All human ills he can subdue,
      Or with a bauble or medal
      Can win mans heart for you;
      And many a blessing know to stew
      To make a megloamaniac bright;
      Give honour to the dainty Corse,
      The Pixie is a little shite.

      Comment


      • #4
        The KV series hands down.

        Pruitt
        Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

        Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

        by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

        Comment


        • #5
          I think German response after encountering each of them at battlefield gives a clear winner.

          A interesting bit of trivia. Nikolay L. Dukhov was the primary designer of the KV tank. He was a talented engineer in the SKB-2 design bureau and later played a major role in establishing KV production at Chelyabinsk.
          After the war, Dukhov was recruited into the Soviet nuclear weapons program and helped direct construction of their first atomic bomb in 1949. Although Dukhov played an important role in designing both the KV-1 and the first generation of Soviet nuclear weapons, he is virtually unknown in the West.
          It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.

          Косово је Србија!
          Never go to war with a country whose national holiday celebrates a defeat in 1389.

          Armored Brigade

          Armored Brigade Facebook page

          Comment


          • #6
            Char B. Even the Soviets gave up on the KV's.
            Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              Char B. Even the Soviets gave up on the KV's.
              Your comments seems to be ripped off History Channel.
              It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.

              Косово је Србија!
              Never go to war with a country whose national holiday celebrates a defeat in 1389.

              Armored Brigade

              Armored Brigade Facebook page

              Comment


              • #8
                KV was far from perfect, but one has to be a crazed patriot of France or a crazed Russia-hater to choose Char B1 over it. Now if it was a comparison with Churchill, there might be something to debate for sure.
                www.histours.ru

                Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

                Comment


                • #9
                  The KV was a progression from prewar Soviet heavy tanks. The KV-1 begat the KV-85, which begat the JS-1 and so on to the T-10.

                  Pruitt
                  Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                  Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                  by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    While the Char B1 was automotively quite cutting edge,it failed in the basics of having a two man turret crew ,no radio and a hull mounted gun.
                    It was also enormous,too much tank,not enough gun.

                    The KV needed polishing and dotting the I's and crossing the T's.
                    A few more months development may have sorted out the gearbox trouble.
                    It was still a mighty shock to the Wehrmacht and as has been said by the former poster,led tortuously to the T10.

                    I go KV.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      KV tanks for me, absolute beast of a tank.
                      "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
                      Ernest Hemingway.

                      Sapere aude.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        IMO, the case ...

                        ... for the KV tanks being (despite their shortcomings) both more significant and more influential should be fairly self-evident and therefore requiring no elaboration from me.

                        KV by a healthy margin.
                        "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                        Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Call me a francophile it was the Char B for me purely on the automotive part.
                          The KV, well it was the first modern heavy spawning a whole series of Soviet heavies. Well am I just being a bit awkward or do I see things different?

                          Ed.
                          The repetition of affirmations leads to belief. Once that belief becomes a deep conviction, you better wake up and look at the facts.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dutched View Post
                            Call me a francophile it was the Char B for me purely on the automotive part.
                            The KV, well it was the first modern heavy spawning a whole series of Soviet heavies. Well am I just being a bit awkward or do I see things different?

                            Ed.
                            IMO, you're seeing things different in this case. Indeed, some considerable significance can be perceived for the automotive aspects of the French tank. We are looking at it from different angles; and what may appear self-evident to one person is not always so much so for another.
                            "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                            Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              This is a tough one. The Char B1 was very much a niche design with very limited potential. It was essentially little more than a Maginot Line artillery bunker on tracks. As a combat tank beyond being useful for a plodding infantry assault it is essentially worthless.

                              The KV series was the first Soviet attempt to create a genuinely successful heavy tank. It's real failure was the engine and transmission giving it poor mobility and reliability. When looked at as a work in progress the KV series did lead to the development of the successful IS series heavy thanks. But, KV's themselves saw combat really for just a couple of years before all but disappearing off the battlefield.

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