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Quarter-Final - Lockheed C-130 Hercules (USA) vs MD F-4 Phantom II (USA)

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  • #31
    Originally posted by MarkV View Post
    The RAF used the Herc to run a very long distance airline service (with refueling) from the UK to the Falklands and a number of my colleagues in the international audit/consultancy firm I used to work for took that flight (we were the Falklands Island Company's advisers). Even with specially installed seats they described it as excruciatingly uncomfortable and boring as well. Painfully numbing for bum and brain after the first ten hours
    Trans Atlantic with the Hercy Bird France to Labrador and the next day on into west TX and back up to KC, standing on that last leg, no seats. Something like 22 flight hours total. Interesting back then but... I took Pan Am back to France for $252 one way.
    "Ask not what your country can do for you"

    Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

    you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
      I disagree, it shows how even worse the soviet planes were. (And pilots as well.)
      She was an energy fighter. We have a history of making that type work.
      ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

      BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

      BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

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      • #33
        The F4 was/is a versatile aircraft and had some influence in its air combat roles. IMHO the C-130 dwarfs the F4 in influence due to its outstanding performance has allowed it to influence in a very large way what the ground forces can do. Entire deployments of ground forces in almost any theatre imaginable are based on what the C-130 can do, the F4 falls very far short of that level of influence. The C-130 influences operations/campaigns to this day and has been doing it for decades.
        "Amateurs study tactics; professionals study logistics"
        -Omar Bradley
        "Not everyone who studies logistics is a professional logistician, and there is no way to understand when you don't know what you don't know."
        -Anonymous US Army logistician

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        • #34
          The USAF, Navy and Marines F-4's must have flown thousands of CAS missions to save many lives of the grunts brought in by Hercs.
          The F-4 also contributed in a significant way in two wars to secure the existence of the state of Israel.
          "For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return"

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Rutger View Post
            The USAF, Navy and Marines F-4's must have flown thousands of CAS missions to save many lives of the grunts brought in by Hercs.
            The F-4 also contributed in a significant way in two wars to secure the existence of the state of Israel.
            True, but when I was in Afghanistan in 2008 it was a C-130 gunship providing the CAS, not an F-4. The flexibility that the C-130 provides to ground operations due to its ability to deliver a lot of supplies to just about anywhere seems pretty much unparalleled. Boots on the ground is what takes and hold terrain and the C-130 is a huge enabler in so many ways (initial deployment, supplies, cas evac, CAS and refueling attack aircraft). Talk about influential...this thing enables entire operations to happen.
            "Amateurs study tactics; professionals study logistics"
            -Omar Bradley
            "Not everyone who studies logistics is a professional logistician, and there is no way to understand when you don't know what you don't know."
            -Anonymous US Army logistician

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            • #36
              Understandable, the F-4 by then having been replaced by the F-16, which provided the longer range quicker response CAS in Afghanistan.
              The gunship is great for the asymmetric type of war like Afghanistan and currently that against IS. It won't be deployed however until it can be flown with relative safety in the area of operations, which is why the Gulf War started with waves of jet fighters including the F-4 in order to (among other things) clear the skies and ground for the AC-130.
              The boots on the ground won't happen until air supremacy has been established.
              "For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return"

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              • #37
                The gunship concept goes back to 1916 and the Dyott Battleplane. This was a large twin engined aircraft based on the Dyott bomber with large calibre Davis recoilless guns and/or machine guns firing out of one side of the fuselage. The idea was that it would fly in circles round the target and rake it with fire. Construction actually started in Luton but it was realised that it could only operate where air superiority could be guaranteed which in 1916 was virtually nowhere.
                Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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