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Rnd 3 Grp AB - Junkers Ju 52 (Germany) vs Polikarpov I-16 (SU/Russia)

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  • Rnd 3 Grp AB - Junkers Ju 52 (Germany) vs Polikarpov I-16 (SU/Russia)

    Round 3, Group AB:

    Junkers Ju 52 (Germany)
    vs
    Polikarpov I-16 (SU/Russia)





    Candidate #15 - Junkers Ju 52 (Germany)

    Service Intro - 1931
    Roles - airliner; transport; bomber; paratroop; minesweeper; ambulance; glider tug
    Quantity Produced - 4,845
    User Nations - Germany + at least 35 other countries

    For further info & some technical details, you can start with Wiki here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_52










    Candidate #18 - Polikarpov I-16 (SU/Russia)

    Service Intro - 1934
    Roles - fighter; ground attack; recon
    Quantity Produced - 8,644
    User Nations - SU/Russia, China, Finland, Mongolia, Spain

    For further info & some technical details, you can start with Wiki here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polikarpov_I-16









    Will you vote for the Ju 52 or the I-16?


    Only one of these two candidates will make it to the next round!


    Which of them is the more significant and/or influential?


    Consider the criteria with care! You decide!
    84
    Junkers Ju 52 (Germany)
    83.33%
    70
    Polikarpov I-16 (SU/Russia)
    16.67%
    14

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by panther3485; 08 Feb 16, 08:02.
    "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
    Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

  • #2
    Auntie Ju!

    Pruitt
    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

    Comment


    • #3
      Tante Ju for me.

      Comment


      • #4
        Gotta go with the Ju-52/3m for its transport and ferrying role, though I am not unmindful of the I-16's role in the Spanish Civil War.

        Susie
        Will no one tell me what she sings?--
        Perhaps the plaintive numbers flow
        For old, unhappy, far-off things,
        And battles long ago:
        -William Wordsworth, "The Solitary Reaper"

        Comment


        • #5
          Is the I-16 really multirole? Anyway its gone.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Prospekt Mira View Post
            "Is the I-16 really multirole? ..."
            In common with a few other types in this tournament, it was considered just multi-role enough to fill one of the last remaining slots in the 128 I had available.

            However, if I had thought of - for example - the Avro 504 and the B-29 during the working-up phase, two of the weaker types would have been axed and the I-16 might have been one of them I suppose.
            "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
            Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

            Comment


            • #7
              "Iron Annie", "Aunty JU" verses the "Rat"?

              Even n a cartoon, aunty would have her big broostick out, bashing the 'Rata' and swweping it out the door.

              No need for accusations of anti-Soviet bias here!
              My Articles, ALMOST LIVE, exclusive to The Armchair!

              Soviet Submarines in WW2....The Mythology of Shiloh....(Edited) Both Sides of the Warsaw Ghetto
              GULAG Glossary....Who Really Killed The Red Baron?....Pearl Harbor At 75
              Lincoln-Douglas Debates

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm not even sure we can classify the I-16 as "multi role"

                Its bombload wasn't that useful, and it was a little too fast to be accurate.

                Russian pilots would have doen more damage by throwing out their lunchboxes at ground targets.

                And speaking of the spanish Civil War, i used to know some south American kids in my townhouse development when i was still in late primary school.

                One of them was from Argentina, (Marcello), the other with Spanish parents (George).

                Marcello used to tease George, in the way that kids do, that the spanish airforce was so short of bombers, that they would cut large holes in the floor of their transport planes, and get George to sit over the hole when he was "doing God's work".

                there was definately no love lost for the original imperial country from the people of "The colonies" like Argentina.

                They all spoke Spanish, and all lashed eachother unmercifully based on national lines. For instance, we called a Uruguyan friend of ours "Beaky" due to the size of his nose.

                They screamed with laughter when we went to see "Life of Brian", and heard the Eric Idle line from the film, "Where are you two from, "Nose City ?"

                George's mother and father actually remembered the Spanish Civil War. They were very small children. The war was the principle reason their parents got out of Spain.

                Off topic. The Spanish airforce can do without George's "conversion" these days.
                My Articles, ALMOST LIVE, exclusive to The Armchair!

                Soviet Submarines in WW2....The Mythology of Shiloh....(Edited) Both Sides of the Warsaw Ghetto
                GULAG Glossary....Who Really Killed The Red Baron?....Pearl Harbor At 75
                Lincoln-Douglas Debates

                Comment


                • #9
                  We should avoid the assumption that influential means influenced for the good. Aircraft can have negative influences as well. Thus the inability of the Rata in the SCW to see off the Fiat CR32 s led both the Italians and the Soviets to conclude that there was still a place for the agile biplane fighter in modern war. There was even a British observer who advised the British government that on the basis of the Rata's performance they shouldn't be too quick to rush into introducing new monoplane fighters into service. Fortunately he was ignored.
                  The shoddy workmanship on many Ratas also influenced the Germans into thinking that the Soviet Union was incapable of mass production of advanced tech aircraft.

                  On the other hand the comparative success of the Ju 52 in the first part of WW2 wrongly convinced the German high command that pockets could easily be maintained from the air.
                  Last edited by MarkV; 09 Feb 16, 08:22.
                  Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                  Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Almost twice as many I-16 were built but I think the Ju 52 was more significant in terms of its greater "multi-role-ness" and at least as influential as the Russian aircraft, notwithstanding the difference in numbers favouring the I-16.

                    Tante Ju for me.
                    "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                    Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                      On the other hand the comparative success of the Ju 52 in the first part of WW2 wrongly convinced the German high command that pockets could easily be maintained from the air.
                      On this score, the real problem the Germans had in doing this was not so much aircraft, as ability to provide them good all-weather airfields, navigation support, and logistical backing.

                      The US and Britain early in the war developed a portable homing beacon system for guiding transports into targets. These were used from 1942 on for partisan arms drops, flying in agents, making paradrops, and aerial resupply. The failure of the system at Market Garden for the British 1st Airborne was a major reason they got ground up so badly.

                      Rebecca / Eureka





                      If you look at the Stalingrad airlift, it was the poor condition of airfields available at both ends along with poor weather making navigation to them difficult without assistance, that more than anything else made that effort fail.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Doesn't affect the logic of my argument - the cause of the failures (Stalingrad wasn't the only one) is irrelevant. The success of early resupply operations wrongly convinced the high command that such operations were easier than they were in fact.
                        Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                        Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Since it looks like this is the I-16's last hurrah, I'd like to highlight one of its uses I found most interesting: being part of the Zveno project.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I-16, multirole?
                            Seriously?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Pzkpfw-e View Post
                              I-16, multirole?
                              Seriously?
                              Please run your eyeballs up to post #6 here and you'll see the answer.
                              "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                              Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

                              Comment

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