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Rnd 3 Grp CD - Junkers Ju 88 (Germany) vs Lockheed Hudson (USA)

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  • Rnd 3 Grp CD - Junkers Ju 88 (Germany) vs Lockheed Hudson (USA)

    Round 3, Group CD:

    Junkers Ju 88 (Germany)
    vs
    Lockheed Hudson (USA)




    Candidate #51 - Junkers Ju 88 (Germany)

    Service Intro - 1939
    Roles - medium bomber; dive bomber & ground attack; long range fighter; anti-shipping & long range maritime patrol; night fighter/intruder; recon
    Quantity Produced - 14,980
    User Nations - Germany, Finland, France, Hungary, Italy, Romania, Spain

    For further info & some technical details, you can start with Wiki here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_88









    Candidate #52 - Lockheed Hudson (USA)

    Service Intro - 1939
    Roles - light bomber; anti-submarine & long range maritime patrol; recon; clandestine ops; transport; trainer
    Quantity Produced - 2,941
    User Nations - USA + at least 12 other countries

    For further info & some technical details, you can start with Wiki here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Hudson








    Will you vote Junkers or Lockheed?


    Only one of these two candidates will make it to the next round!


    Which of them is the more significant and/or influential?


    Consider the criteria with care! You decide!
    89
    Junkers Ju 88 (Germany)
    87.64%
    78
    Lockheed Hudson (USA)
    12.36%
    11

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by panther3485; 13 Feb 16, 21:26.
    "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
    Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

  • #2
    I have to go Junkers!

    Pruitt
    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

    Comment


    • #3
      I hate to admit it (boy, do I hate it!) but the ugly, ugly Ju-88 was probably one of the most versatile aircraft that the Germans had. The Italians used it, too (she typed to keep from weeping)

      Susie
      Will no one tell me what she sings?--
      Perhaps the plaintive numbers flow
      For old, unhappy, far-off things,
      And battles long ago:
      -William Wordsworth, "The Solitary Reaper"

      Comment


      • #4
        I really do agree about the Junkers ugliness. In fact, was their a single example of a Junkers aircraft design that has ever been descibed as beautiful.

        Hugo certainly had an eye for the ungainly form.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Drusus Nero View Post
          I really do agree about the Junkers ugliness. In fact, was their a single example of a Junkers aircraft design that has ever been descibed as beautiful.

          Hugo certainly had an eye for the ungainly form.
          He didn't design the Ju88
          Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
          Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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          • #6
            Yes Mark, point duly noted.

            Now, was any Junkers aircraft pleasing to the eye?
            My Articles, ALMOST LIVE, exclusive to The Armchair!

            Soviet Submarines in WW2....The Mythology of Shiloh....(Edited) Both Sides of the Warsaw Ghetto
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            Lincoln-Douglas Debates

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Drusus Nero View Post
              Yes Mark, point duly noted.

              Now, was any Junkers aircraft pleasing to the eye?
              Junker C I Junker D I, Junker Ju 86
              Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
              Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

              Comment


              • #8
                Better looking Junkers

                Ju 86
                A Ju 86Z in Manchurian service. The South African Air Force operated these as bombers against the Italians
                A Ju 86P pressurised high altitude phot recce. Quite successful until special Spitfire conversions were produced to get up to the same altitude
                Attached Files
                Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ju-88 easily wins this one. It's a truly great aircraft. It's one thing to have multiple roles on paper, it's another to successfully do them all.
                  ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

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                  • #10
                    Much as I "love" the Hudson~Ventura~Harpoon line of design, the Ju-88 wins out on roles, and versatility, durability, etc. ...
                    TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                    “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Ju 88...

                      Some unmentioned roles:

                      Tank buster:







                      The Ju 88P 1 - 5 in various configurations carried anything from 2 3.7cm to one 7.5cm cannon for tank busting. These saw action in Russia in 1943 - 44.



                      The Ju 88 H series: Long range maritime patrol.



                      The Ju 88 Mistel, a flying bomb / guided bomb.





                      The Ju 488 derivative of the Ju 88 / 188 / 288 / 388 as a four engine heavy bomber.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                        "Ju 88...
                        Some unmentioned roles:
                        Tank buster ... "
                        Thanks. "Ground attack" added. (Thought I'd already put that in but I just had "dive bomber")


                        Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                        " ... The Ju 88 H series: Long range maritime patrol. ... "
                        Well picked up, TAG. Added.


                        Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                        " ... The Ju 88 Mistel, a flying bomb / guided bomb. ... "
                        Yes, I thought of this but wasn't quite sure what to do with it.
                        Although the Ju-88 part was obviously much larger than the Fw 190 part, as I understand it the whole thing was flown by the pilot in the Fw 190; effectively therefore the Ju 88 airframe becomes both a munition and a self-propelled appendage to the Fw (notwithstanding the disparity in size).
                        Rather than list it as a Ju-88 "role" for the purpose of this tournament, I think I'll just let members make up their own minds here. They can take it into account as a Ju-88 role if they think it's reasonable or appropriate.
                        Besides, and as I've said before in regard to a number of other planes, it was never my intention to exhaustively list every single role or use for each aircraft.


                        Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                        " ... The Ju 488 derivative of the Ju 88 / 188 / 288 / 388 as a four engine heavy bomber."
                        Yep, looked at that but decided not to include it for the purposes of this tournament; since I have chosen to regard it as a different basic aircraft type.
                        This may not be 100 percent consistent as I have - for example - included the Mirage 2000 along with the Mirage III and V but hey, I've already confessed to that and besides, nobody's perfect, right?
                        Last edited by panther3485; 13 Feb 16, 21:52.
                        "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                        Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          5 times as many Ju 88 built and just look at its suite of roles.
                          The Hudson was a very worthy multi-role aircraft and up against some of the other candidates it might have won but not much chance against the Ju 88, IMO.

                          Voting Junkers here.
                          "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                          Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The Hudson was very much a stop-gap airplane. It was essentially a light bomber converted from a twin engine transport plane to supplement and eventually replace the Avro Anson in the role of maritime patrol.

                            One thing I'd mention / question is... Could that turret on the back of it be any bigger or more bulbous?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Lockheed what?
                              Ju-88 - easy vote
                              One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic.

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