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Rnd 3 Grp GH - F-4 Phantom II (USA) vs Harrier series (Britain; USA)

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  • Rnd 3 Grp GH - F-4 Phantom II (USA) vs Harrier series (Britain; USA)

    Round 3, Group GH:

    McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II (USA)
    vs
    HS/BAe/Boeing/MD Harrier series (Britain; USA)




    Candidate #108 - McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II (USA)

    Service Intro - 1961
    Roles - interceptor; air superiority; fighter-bomber; wild weasel; recon
    Quantity Produced - 5,195
    User Nations - USA + 11 other countries

    For further info & some technical details, you can start with Wiki here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonn...F-4_Phantom_II









    Candidate #117 - HS/BAe/Boeing/MD Harrier series (Britain; USA)

    Service Intro - 1969
    Roles - Ground attack/strike; fighter/fleet defence; recon
    Quantity Produced - 869
    User Nations - Britain, USA, India, Italy, Spain, Thailand

    For further info & some technical details, you can start with Wiki here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrier_Jump_Jet
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Siddeley_Harrier
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis...ce_Sea_Harrier
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonn...-8B_Harrier_II
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis...ace_Harrier_II








    Will you vote for the Phantom II or the Harrier?


    Only one of these two candidates will make it to the next round!


    Which of them is the more significant and/or influential?


    Consider the criteria with care! You decide!
    88
    McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II (USA)
    54.55%
    48
    HS/BAe/Boeing/MD Harrier series (Britain; USA)
    45.45%
    40

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by panther3485; 08 Feb 16, 09:49.
    "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
    Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

  • #2
    This was a harder choice. Went for the Phantom because of its impact in 'nam and that it was bought by just about everybody. (Except for the Soviet block.)
    Credo quia absurdum.


    Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

    Comment


    • #3
      I love both aircraft but the Phantom is still flying as a Recon Aircraft. It is just a more versatile and influential aircraft.

      Pruitt
      Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

      Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

      by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

      Comment


      • #4
        I lose - voted for the Jump Jet.

        Comment


        • #5
          I think V/TOL has the edge on this poll.
          "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
          Ernest Hemingway.

          "The more I learn about people, The more I love my dog".
          Mark Twain.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Achtung Baby View Post
            I think V/TOL has the edge on this poll.
            Not to speak of the F-4 being the ugliest jet in history

            Susie
            Will no one tell me what she sings?--
            Perhaps the plaintive numbers flow
            For old, unhappy, far-off things,
            And battles long ago:
            -William Wordsworth, "The Solitary Reaper"

            Comment


            • #7
              Would you vote for Kim "Big Arse" Kardashian? Over our wonderful world class jump jet?

              Any aircraft can do what a Phantom does/did.

              How many Phantoms could survive a deck landing a a force 8 gale?

              Jump Jet. Lots of other countries would copy this jet if they had the money/expertise.
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              • #8
                Why is the phantom getting all this love. Compared to the harrier it is nothing special.
                you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

                CPO Mzinyati

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Desiree Clary View Post
                  Not to speak of the F-4 being the ugliest jet in history

                  Susie
                  Naa, I find it attractive. Doesn't follow the fashion crowd.
                  "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                  Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                  you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Drusus Nero View Post
                    Would you vote for Kim "Big Arse" Kardashian? Over our wonderful world class jump jet?

                    Any aircraft can do what a Phantom does/did.

                    How many Phantoms could survive a deck landing a a force 8 gale?

                    Jump Jet. Lots of other countries would copy this jet if they had the money/expertise.
                    All the ones bought by the USN

                    Not when it was first built.
                    "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                    Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                    you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by andrewza View Post
                      Why is the phantom getting all this love. Compared to the harrier it is nothing special.
                      My, you are cionfused down there.

                      World records[edit]

                      Transcontinental "Operation LANA" in 1961
                      To show off their new fighter, the Navy led a series of record-breaking flights early in Phantom development:[2] All in all, the Phantom set 16 world records. Except for Skyburner, all records were achieved in unmodified production aircraft. Five of the speed records remained unbeaten until the F-15 Eagle appeared in 1975.[3]

                      Operation Top Flight: On 6 December 1959, the second XF4H-1 performed a zoom climb to a world record 98,557 ft (30,040 m).[4][32] Commander Lawrence E. Flint, Jr., USN accelerated his aircraft to Mach 2.5 (1,650 mph; 2,660 km/h) at 47,000 ft (14,330 m) and climbed to 90,000 ft (27,430 m) at a 45° angle. He then shut down the engines and glided to the peak altitude. As the aircraft fell through 70,000 ft (21,300 m), Flint restarted the engines and resumed normal flight.[33]
                      On 5 September 1960, an F4H-1 averaged 1,216.78 mph (1,958.16 km/h) over a 500 km (311 mi) closed-circuit course.[4]
                      On 25 September 1960, an F4H-1F averaged 1,390.24 mph (2,237.37 km/h) over a 100 km (62.1 mi) closed-circuit course.[4] FAIRecord File Number 8898.
                      Operation LANA: To celebrate the 50th anniversary of Naval aviation (L is the Roman numeral for 50 and ANA stood for Anniversary of Naval Aviation) on 24 May 1961, Phantoms flew across the continental United States in under three hours and included several tanker refuelings. The fastest of the aircraft averaged 869.74 mph (1,400.28 km/h) and completed the trip in 2 hours 47 minutes, earning the pilot (and future NASA Astronaut), Lieutenant Richard Gordon, USN and RIO, Lieutenant Bobbie Young, USN, the 1961 Bendix trophy.[4][34][35][36]
                      Operation Sageburner: On 28 August 1961, a F4H-1F Phantom II averaged 1,452.777 kilometers per hour (902.714 miles per hour) over a 3 mi (4.82 km) course flying below 125 feet (38.1 m) at all times.[4] Commander J.L. Felsman, USN was killed during the first attempt at this record on 18 May 1961 when his aircraft disintegrated in the air after pitch damper failure.[37]
                      Operation Skyburner: On 22 December 1961, a modified Phantom with water injection set an absolute world record speed of 1,606.342 mph (2,585.086 km/h).[4]
                      On 5 December 1961, another Phantom set a sustained altitude record of 66,443.8 feet (20,252 m).[4]
                      Operation High Jump: A series of time-to-altitude records was set in early 1962: 34.523 seconds to 3,000 meters (9,840 ft), 48.787 seconds to 6,000 meters (19,700 ft), 61.629 seconds to 9,000 meters (29,500 ft), 77.156 seconds to 12,000 meters (39,400 ft), 114.548 seconds to 15,000 meters (49,200 ft), 178.5 seconds to 20,000 meters (65,600 ft), 230.44 seconds to 25,000 metres (82,000 ft), and 371.43 seconds to 30,000 metres (98,400 ft).[38]

                      Other than Queen of Ugly what records does the Hairy One own?
                      "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                      Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                      you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You can operat it from a school parking lot. Thats a feat more usefull than any of those records.
                        you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

                        CPO Mzinyati

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by andrewza View Post
                          You can operat it from a school parking lot. Thats a feat more usefull than any of those records.
                          You can operated these from a parking lot also.




                          "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                          Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                          you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Sure but thats not in the poll here.
                            you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

                            CPO Mzinyati

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by andrewza View Post
                              Sure but thats not in the poll here.
                              You missed the point.
                              taking off from small areas is nothing new.

                              F4 in all important category leads over the Harrier. Ceiling, range, rate of climb, load carrying and speed. Those are all VERY important in a combat aircraft.
                              "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                              Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                              you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                              Comment

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