Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Rnd 2 Grp CD - Fieseler Fi 156 Storch (Germany) vs Westland Lysander (Britain)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Rnd 2 Grp CD - Fieseler Fi 156 Storch (Germany) vs Westland Lysander (Britain)

    Round 2, Group CD:

    Fieseler Fi 156 Storch (Germany)
    vs
    Westland Lysander (Britain)




    Candidate #34 - Fieseler Fi 156 Storch (Germany)

    Service Intro - 1937
    Roles - army co-operation/liaison; medevac; tac recon; artillery spotting; staff transport; rescue from difficult terrain
    Quantity Produced - 2,850
    User Nations - Germany + about 25 other countries

    For further info & some technical details, you can start with Wiki here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fieseler_Fi_156









    Candidate #49 - Westland Lysander (Britain)

    Service Intro - 1938
    Roles - liaison & staff transport; artillery spotting; coastal patrol & air-sea rescue; light bomber; medevac; clandestine ops; tactical recon; supply drops; trainer/target tug
    Quantity Produced - 1,786
    User Nations - Britain, Australia, Canada, Egypt, Finland, Free France, India, Ireland

    For further info & some technical details, you can start with Wiki here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westland_Lysander








    Will you vote for the Storch or the Lysander?


    Only one of these two candidates will make it to the next round!


    Which of them is the more significant and/or influential?


    Consider the criteria with care! You decide!
    82
    Fieseler Fi 156 Storch (Germany)
    63.41%
    52
    Westland Lysander (Britain)
    36.59%
    30

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by panther3485; 17 Jan 16, 02:54.
    "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
    Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

  • #2
    Good match Panther!

    Abstain, pending brilliant commentary.

    My heart says the Storch.

    My brain says the Lissie.

    Damn! thats a hard one to pick.

    Abstain pending....
    My Articles, ALMOST LIVE, exclusive to The Armchair!

    Soviet Submarines in WW2....The Mythology of Shiloh....(Edited) Both Sides of the Warsaw Ghetto
    GULAG Glossary....Who Really Killed The Red Baron?....Pearl Harbor At 75
    Lincoln-Douglas Debates

    Comment


    • #3
      Overall, the low speed performance of the Feisler was far superior to that of the Lysander, while the Lysander carried out Resistance para drops and many other extremely useful and dangerous tasks.

      Like Drusus, my heart is with the Storch, but my brain reminds me that the Lysander, with it's greater passenger and cargo capacity, was far more useful overall.
      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

      Comment


      • #4
        The Storch, one of the few German aircraft I am impressed by
        Will no one tell me what she sings?--
        Perhaps the plaintive numbers flow
        For old, unhappy, far-off things,
        And battles long ago:
        -William Wordsworth, "The Solitary Reaper"

        Comment


        • #5
          When in doubt go with the numbers.
          John

          Play La Marseillaise. Play it!

          Comment


          • #6
            Here's how I see this match up. Both aircraft filled similar roles. But, the Lysander having been initially built prewar on the concept of "Army cooperation" was sized to carry a small bomb load and a machinegun or two. WW 2 quickly proved that an aircraft like the Lysander stood zero chance of operating over an active battlefield and that it's tiny bomb load and few weapons were all but worthless. Hence it's morphing into a liaison / light transport aircraft... Mostly because it was already available.

            The Storch on the other hand is one of a number of such light liaison transport aircraft that many nations developed prior to or during WW 2. It follows the successful pattern for such planes. It has a low power engine, great low speed characteristics, can land just about anywhere, and doesn't cost much.

            Look at the difference in the two:

            Lysander: Weighs 4,365 lbs empty about 5,500 loaded. Has a 305 yd. take off and about a 100 yd. landing. Carries 2 x .303 machineguns and can (if fitted) carry about 500 lbs. in small bombs.

            Storch: Weighs 1,900 lbs. empty and about 2,300 loaded. Has a 80 yard take of and 30 yd. landing. Generally not armed.

            The Storch is like the L-4 or 5 US liaison aircraft and similar types in British and Russian use. It's the right plane for the sort or jobs it was doing. The Lysander is this huge lumbering beast by comparison that really only existed because it already did exist prior to WW 2. That's why it disappeared from service as it became unserviceable as an aircraft.

            The Storch-like aircraft continued in service post war and right up to Vietnam and beyond with various militaries. It is the right design for a light liaison and transport aircraft.

            Comment


            • #7
              Both are outstanding bit the Storch just seems to be better to me.

              Pruitt
              Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

              Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

              by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                Both are outstanding bit the Storch just seems to be better to me.

                Pruitt
                Because it was.
                My worst jump story:
                My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                No lie.

                ~
                "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post


                  Storch: Weighs 1,900 lbs. empty and about 2,300 loaded. Has a 80 yard take of and 30 yd. landing. Generally not armed.

                  .
                  Storch had a rear gun position,
                  Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                  Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                    Storch had a rear gun position,
                    On occasion, but most were unarmed.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Darn it...despite a good thinking post from TAG, I still cannot decide.

                      Maybe I should go for "influence".

                      The pattern of the Storch design has obviously been replicated in many light aircraft post war.

                      Even U.S. Army "Grasshopper" observation planes seem to mirror it's design.

                      Both are iconic aircraft. What person does not remember Rommel's personal Storch landing at Mechili airfield overnight, then it's passengers waking up to find British tanks had occupied the field overnight. I'm sure that particular pilot got his Storch up in a lot less than 80 yards!
                      And who could forget the wonderful photo of Skorzeny squeezing in his six foot five frame into a Storch with a civilian coated Mussolini looking haggard and tired smiling elated from the backseat. I'm doubly sure the only reason Skorzeny could fit in the aircraft at all was that Mussolini was four feet nothing tall. And the take off over the field at Grand Sasso and over a cliff face, with the pilot pulling up on the stick and opening the throttle for all it was worth must have been exhilerating!

                      Wouldn't you just like to be on the re-enactment party for THAT attack. Finding three brave re-enactors to fit in the Storch would be something.

                      On the other hand, what photo or description of SOE would be complete without a "Lyssie" in the background.

                      Storch it is then, with apologies to Westland and fans of the Lysander. Incidently, does anyone know why in Hades Westland would name their aircraft after a Spartan Admiral? Where's the connexion there?
                      My Articles, ALMOST LIVE, exclusive to The Armchair!

                      Soviet Submarines in WW2....The Mythology of Shiloh....(Edited) Both Sides of the Warsaw Ghetto
                      GULAG Glossary....Who Really Killed The Red Baron?....Pearl Harbor At 75
                      Lincoln-Douglas Debates

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The Storch also has the distinction of being the German plane that fought the last dogfight of WW 2 in the ETO...

                        http://armedforcesmuseum.com/last-an...fight-of-wwii/

                        The Storch ran into an L-4 Grasshopper near Berlin and in trying to evade the US "fighter" it accidently crashed after being fired on by the US pilots with their trusty .45 pistols. The US crew landed nearby and the German crew surrendered. They then rendered first aid to their German counterparts.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I don't think that the special performance of the Storch has ever successfully matched.
                          The repetition of affirmations leads to belief. Once that belief becomes a deep conviction, you better wake up and look at the facts.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                            The Storch also has the distinction of being the German plane that fought the last dogfight of WW 2 in the ETO...

                            http://armedforcesmuseum.com/last-an...fight-of-wwii/

                            The Storch ran into an L-4 Grasshopper near Berlin and in trying to evade the US "fighter" it accidently crashed after being fired on by the US pilots with their trusty .45 pistols. The US crew landed nearby and the German crew surrendered. They then rendered first aid to their German counterparts.
                            It is well known, or should be, that VE(Victory in Europe) day was on 8 May.

                            This is a history forum after all.

                            The source you linked to states the last air combat taking place on 12 April.

                            Your source unambiguously states:

                            Last (and Most Unique) Dogfight of WWII

                            Throughout the extensive air-to-air combat missions of WWII, no one can dispute the last and most unique dogfight of the war. The fight ensued on April 12, 1945 as two Americans in a low-flying piper (an L-4 Grasshopper) spotted an enemy piper during a routine scouting mission near Berlin. The enemy aircraft was a German Fieseler Storch.
                            [.....]
                            In reality, one of the last recorded examples of air to air combat involved Luftwaffe ace Erich Hartmann on VE day itself.

                            Over & Out Of Control

                            On 8 May 1945 I took off at around 0800 hours from my field in Czechoslovakia going to Bruenn. My wingman and I saw eight Yaks below us. I shot one down and that was my last victory. I decided not to attack the others once I saw that there were twelve Mustangs on the scene above me. My wingman and I headed for the deck where the smoke of the bombing could hide us. We pulled through the smoke and saw once again the two allies fighting each other above us. Incredible! Well we landed at the field and were told that the war was over.
                            http://acesofww2.com/germany/aces/hartmann/

                            A lot happened in the air between 12 April and 8 May.
                            Last edited by At ease; 22 Jan 16, 17:26.
                            "It's like shooting rats in a barrel."
                            "You'll be in a barrel if you don't watch out for the fighters!"

                            "Talking about airplanes is a very pleasant mental disease."
                            Sergei(son of Igor) Sikorsky, 'AOPA Pilot' magazine February 2003.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The Storch probably deserves to win and it looks as if it will. It is arguably the more truly "fit for purpose" platform; especially with its short take-off/landing capability. Both aircraft seem to have filled a wide range of roles very well.

                              However, this is one of the few cases where I'm going to let heart over-rule head and my vote has gone to the Lysander.
                              "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                              Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

                              Comment

                              Latest Topics

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X