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Rnd 1 Grp B - Mitsubishi G3M "Nell" (Japan) vs SM.79 Sparviero (Italy)

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  • Rnd 1 Grp B - Mitsubishi G3M "Nell" (Japan) vs SM.79 Sparviero (Italy)

    Round 1, Group B: Mitsubishi G3M "Nell" (Japan) vs Savoia-Marchetti SM.79 Sparviero (Italy)




    Candidate #26 - Mitsubishi G3M "Nell" (Japan)

    Service Intro - 1936
    Roles - long range medium bomber; maritime patrol; anti-shipping; transport; trainer
    Quantity Produced - 1,048
    User Nations - Japan, China, Indonesia

    For further info & some technical details, you can start with Wiki here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_G3M









    Candidate #28 - Savoia-Marchetti SM.79 Sparviero (Italy)

    Service Intro - 1936
    Roles - medium bomber; torpedo bomber; recon; transport; airliner
    Quantity Produced - 1,370
    User Nations - Italy, Brazil, Britain, Croatia, Iraq, Lebanon, Spain, Yugoslavia

    For further info & some technical details, you can start with Wiki here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savoia-Marchetti_SM.79









    Will you vote for the Nell or the Sparviero?


    Only one of these two candidates will make it to the next round!


    Which of them is the more significant and/or influential?


    Consider the criteria with care! You decide!
    75
    Mitsubishi G3M ("Nell") (Japan)
    52.00%
    39
    Savoia-Marchetti SM.79 Sparviero (Italy)
    48.00%
    36

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by panther3485; 05 Dec 15, 01:08.
    "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
    Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

  • #2
    The Nell. More usage, more bombs dropped, helped sink Force Z.
    Divine Mercy Sunday: 4/21/2020 (https://www.thedivinemercy.org/message) The Miracle of Lanciano: Jesus' Real Presence (https://web.archive.org/web/20060831...fcontents.html)

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    • #3
      The Nell, although it was a closer contest than some realize. I am reading a book right now about the Japanese conquest of the East Indies. Horizontal bombers did hit the Repulse and Prince of Wales once each, but it was the Torpedo armed Nells and Bettys that sank the two ships.
      Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

      Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

      by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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      • #4


        And here is the translation. You will notice very pompous, typically Fascist, propaganda language, but I tried to give an accurate translation.

        Italian aircraft against British ships

        -Filming was performed by the same glorious crews who participated in air actions against the enemy convoy- (intro text)

        The first astonishing cinematographic document on naval air battle in the Mediterranean. This footage in particular shows an attack on British convoy directed from Gibraltar towards Malta, taking losses from torpedo bombers off the coast of Tunis.
        0:46 Torpedo and naval bombers taking off. Commanders, pilots and crews are set about on difficult task with resoluteness and high combat morale.
        1:40 Towards the enemy!
        2:02 Escorting fighters ready to fend off any Spitfire attack against our torpedo bombers.
        2:35 Sighting of the enemy convoy. Enemy fighters take off from the aircraft carrier and fly against our formations who are unleashing an relentless assault on adversary ships.
        2:50 Convoy, defending with strong concentration of anti-aircraft fire, breaks our aerial formation. Torpedo bombers are attacking!
        3:05 Torpedo is released. Hectic and incessant enemy maneuvers to evade aerial torpedoes.
        3:20 Another torpedo is released! The aircraft still have one torpedo more to deliver on the target. Deadly ordinance is visible next to the left engine.
        3:32 Surviving enemy ships, already decimated, continue to defend desperately. Second torpedo is released! Enemy ships maneuver in a frenzy.
        4:00 The drop!
        4:10 Impressive sight following a vicious attack. A wide stretch of sea is covered in dense smoke, coming from ships in distress. British ships are coated with black fog, like a funeral curtain.
        4:40 This graveyard of ships seen slowly by camera lens is a categorical denial of unavoidable and pitiful lies of British Admiralty trying to justify this disaster.
        5:04 Gigantic brazier formed by six burning ships.
        5:20 A destroyer is hit and sinking. This footage have been slowed down, so more details could be seen, and it was made by Macchi C.202 equipt for photo-reconnaissance and piloted by Captain Carlo Lupoli.
        5:50 Next to an enormous oil spill, there are floating remains of a sunk cruiser, and in background we can see columns of smoke raising from burning ships. Again, a slowed down footage.
        6:20 More burning ships. Final and solemn testimony that Mediterranean is forever barred for British.
        Last edited by nikolas93TS; 08 Dec 15, 07:25.
        It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.

        Косово је Србија!
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        • #5
          Nell
          "Ask not what your country can do for you"

          Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

          you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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          • #6
            No, not the Nell, it was outdated by the time Japan got into the war. The SM.79 was a factor right to the end, and also a fun airplane from what I hear, I wouldn't mind having one myself.

            Comment


            • #7
              The G3M was obsolescent at the beginning of the Pacific War and remained only in limited service during the initial months of that war. It was quickly replaced by the G4M and relegated to roles like training afterwards.

              The SM 79 remained in service through Italy's surrender and beyond.

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm inclined to agree with Exo & TAG on this one. IMHO the Italian machine in this case, was a bit more significant/influential as a multi-role aircraft by comparison; despite the Nell having participated in some fairly major events.
                "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
                  I'm inclined to agree with Exo & TAG on this one. IMHO the Italian machine in this case, was a bit more significant/influential as a multi-role aircraft by comparison; despite the Nell having participated in some fairly major events.
                  And one should not overlook the twin engined versions.
                  Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                  Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                    And one should not overlook the twin engined versions.
                    Good point. I managed to get a decent photo of the single-engine Ju 52 but overlooked the twin-engine export versions of the SM.79. Ah well, there's always Round 2 if the Sparviero wins here.
                    "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                    Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The SM.79 also had a major impact on the aviation world before the war as well. It half dozens of speed records and played a significant part in the Spanish Civil War. It's ability to outrun enemy fighters sent to intercept it fed into the "the bomber will always get though" myth that many nations went into WWII with.

                      The Nell on the other hand was is almost completely overshadowed by it' successor the Betty and I would actually consider the Betty a closer competitor to the Sparviero. SM.79 for me.
                      "Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl." - Frederick the Great

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by frisco17 View Post
                        The SM.79 also had a major impact on the aviation world before the war as well. It half dozens of speed records and played a significant part in the Spanish Civil War. It's ability to outrun enemy fighters sent to intercept it fed into the "the bomber will always get though" myth that many nations went into WWII with.

                        The Nell on the other hand was is almost completely overshadowed by it' successor the Betty and I would actually consider the Betty a closer competitor to the Sparviero. SM.79 for me.
                        It needed the speed as its defensive armament was insufficient but then this was also the case with the Nell
                        Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                        Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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                        • #13
                          The SM.79 should be the victor here, but unfortunately it seems the Italians will be denied.....
                          ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

                          BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

                          BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

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                          • #14
                            The "Nell" is another example of the B5N2 Kate Syndrome.

                            the Nell's reputation rested on the brilliance of the weapon system it carried, the "Long Lance".

                            The Nell was, as pointed out, obselete before 1939-40.

                            However, the Betty wasn't much of a replacement. they all suffered from no self-sealing gas tanks or armour to speak of.

                            Never forget, Yamamoto was surprised while flying in a Betty. He might have survived but for the Betty's propensity to catching fire at the least hit in that area. The Admiral's flight was right over the base (also escorted by 6 Zeros), and a better aircraft than the Betty might well have seen a shaken but not stirred Yamamoto be nursed down onto the field, or anywhere to make a better landing than the uncontrolled firecracker his transport became.

                            A tougher Betty might have survived long enough ofr the 6 escorting Zeros to do their stuff. Those Lightnings might not have gotten a second 'pass".

                            The SM-79 was a marvellous piece of design work. Very popular with aircrews. It also served to be the death knell of an important personage, Italo Balbo, flying into harbour and shot down by his own anti-aircraft gunners.

                            But for their lack of height at the time, that SM-79 could have changed the Med War significantly by a safe landing of a shaken but not stirred Italo Balbo. But when you are hit very close to the ground, it's hard to come back from that and get the crate in position for a forced landing when you don't have the height to work with.

                            SM 79 Sparrow, (I think thats the Italian translation, apologies if not)

                            Oh incidently, have a look at the text of the Italian film...at 5:04..it reads "Gigantic brazier formed by six burning ships"I was not aware the Brits had special naval Bras of that size. Thats HOT! And very Latin!

                            Viva Italia!
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                            • #15
                              Mitsubishi G3M ("Nell") (Japan)

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