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Rnd 1 Grp D - Arado Ar 196 (Germany) vs Blohm und Voss Bv 138 (Germany)

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  • Rnd 1 Grp D - Arado Ar 196 (Germany) vs Blohm und Voss Bv 138 (Germany)

    Round 1, Group D: Arado Ar 196 (Germany) vs Blohm und Voss Bv 138 (Germany)




    Candidate #50 - Arado Ar 196 (Germany)

    Service Intro - 1939
    Roles - coastal patrol; fighter; convoy escort; anti-submarine; light bombing; general recon
    Quantity Produced - 415
    User Nations - Germany, Bulgaria, Finland

    For further info & some technical details, you can start with Wiki here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arado_Ar_196









    Candidate #55 - Blohm und Voss Bv 138 (Germany)

    Service Intro - 1940
    Roles - long range recon; convoy patrol; U-boat support; minesweeping; transport
    Quantity Produced - 279
    User Nations - Germany

    For further info & some technical details, you can start with Wiki here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blohm_%26_Voss_BV_138









    Will you vote for the Ar 196 or the Bv 138?


    Only one of these two candidates will make it to the next round!


    Which of them is the more significant and/or influential?


    Consider the criteria with care! You decide!
    80
    Arado Ar 196 (Germany)
    60.00%
    48
    Blohm und Voss Bv 138 (Germany)
    40.00%
    32

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by panther3485; 17 Dec 15, 12:16.
    "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
    Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

  • #2
    Ar 196.
    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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    • #3
      I'm going Bv 138 here. There's not a huge difference in numbers produced or variety of roles; but the 138 could carry a decent load for U-Boat support, which I think was a particularly important role.
      "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
      Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

      Comment


      • #4
        The BV 138 was pretty much limited to the maritime reconnaissance role. Anything else it did was a very far second to that. It could carry only the most limited bomb load and really had no means to do things like strafe or otherwise attack targets.

        Comment


        • #5
          Bv 138 for me
          History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon. Napoleon Bonaparte
          _________
          BoRG
          __________
          "I am Arthur, King of the Britons!"

          Comment


          • #6
            In conjunction with the somewhat brief wiki article, I found these a little bit helpful too:

            http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircr...ircraft_id=476
            http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/bv138.html

            "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
            Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm not familiar with these planes enough to vote yet. I'll have to read posts by those with more authority on the topic.
              Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

              Comment


              • #8
                Another Role missed the Arado was employed as a fighter hunting Whitley patrol aircraft over the Bay of Biscay
                Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                  Another Role missed the Arado was employed as a fighter hunting Whitley patrol aircraft over the Bay of Biscay
                  Thanks again. Fixed again.
                  "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                  Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    How can a seaplane dog fight? Wouldn't the float create drag and make the AR-196 hard to manover.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Merkava188 View Post
                      How can a seaplane dog fight? Wouldn't the float create drag and make the AR-196 hard to manover.
                      Best ask the Japanese, I think. IIRC they used floatplane fighters as much as or more than anyone else?

                      Or, let me put it another way: If an aircraft was employed as a floatplane fighter, it was so employed. How effective it could be (against whatever opposition may be around) and what opposition it might come up against are key questions; but being able to land on & take off from water would - I'm guessing - sometimes allow it to be in places where land-based fighters might not so easily get to. Carrier-based fighters are another question altogether of course but even they can't be everywhere? I guess what I'm suggesting is that it might not be called upon to dog-fight all that often and on some occasions when it does, the opposition might not be any more dog-fight capable. MarkV's example of the Ar 196 against Whitleys would be a case in point. Even with its floats I'm guessing it would be more than agile enough.

                      Just a few thoughts.
                      Last edited by panther3485; 17 Dec 15, 22:05.
                      "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                      Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Merkava188 View Post
                        How can a seaplane dog fight? Wouldn't the float create drag and make the AR-196 hard to manover.
                        It would still outmanoeuvre a Whitley bomber which was its intended prey.
                        If I had to fly fighter patrols in a single engined aircraft way out into the Atlantic and with no ASR support I think I'd like a pair of floats

                        BTW Supermarine developed floatplane version of the Spitfire for use in the Pacific.
                        Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                        Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Ar196s also managed to shoot down Bristol Beaufighters in the Aegean. They also played a major role in capturing a British submarine Seal in 1940.
                          Japanese float fighters were designed to operate from small island bases which were too small to build airstrips on. Against unescorted bombers they performed adequately. Against escorted raids they faired less well. The logic was better some fighter cover than none. Better some bomber defense than none. The Japanese also used them to harass US PT boats. Some A6M2-Ns served in the Aleutians where they had runins with the RCAF !
                          Last edited by CarpeDiem; 18 Dec 15, 07:21.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CarpeDiem View Post
                            Ar196s also managed to shoot down Bristol Beaufighters in the Aegean as well. They also played a major role in capturing a British submarine Seal in 1940.
                            Japanese float fighters were designed to operate from small islands bases which were too small to build airstrips from. Against unescorted bombers they performed adequately. Against escorted raids they faired less well. The logic was better some fighter cover than none. Better some bomber defense than none.
                            There was also another rationale for the float plane fighter - it was not possible to put their runway out of action by bombing it
                            Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                            Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                              BTW Supermarine developed floatplane version of the Spitfire for use in the Pacific.
                              Article on the Spitfire floatplane by Alfred Price

                              http://www.tailsthroughtime.com/2011...inald.html?m=1

                              The Spitfire float plane concept was initially conceived for Norway. Then reseurrected with thoughts of using them in the Aegean. Finally reexamined with the Pacific in mind before being shelved.
                              It's interesting to read how far along the Aegean plans developed.
                              The thought of float Spitfires dogfighting Ar196s is fascinating to me. IIRC Commando comics did an issue in which a float Spitfire saw action.
                              Last edited by CarpeDiem; 18 Dec 15, 09:36.

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