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Rnd 1 Grp E - Focke-Wulf Fw 190 "Wurger" (Germany) vs Republic P-47 Thunderbolt (USA)

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  • Rnd 1 Grp E - Focke-Wulf Fw 190 "Wurger" (Germany) vs Republic P-47 Thunderbolt (USA)

    Round 1, Group E: Focke-Wulf Fw 190 "Wurger" (Germany) vs Republic P-47 Thunderbolt (USA)





    Candidate #65 - Focke-Wulf Fw 190 "Wurger" (Germany)

    Service Intro - 1941
    Roles - air superiority/interceptor; ground attack; night fighter
    Quantity Produced - 20,051
    User Nations - Germany, Czechoslovakia, France, Hungary, Spain, Romania, Turkey

    For further info & some technical details, you can start with Wiki here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Fw_190









    Candidate #80 - Republic P-47 Thunderbolt (USA)

    Service Intro - 1942
    Roles - long range fighter; fighter-bomber
    Quantity Produced - 15,683
    User Nations - USA + at least 20 other countries

    For further info & some technical details, you can start with Wiki here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_P-47_Thunderbolt









    Will you vote for the Wurger or the Thunderbolt?


    Only one of these two candidates will make it to the next round!


    Which of them is the more significant and/or influential?


    Consider the criteria with care! You decide!
    97
    Focke-Wulf Fw 190 "Wurger" (Germany)
    40.21%
    39
    Republic P-47 Thunderbolt (USA)
    59.79%
    58

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by panther3485; 12 Jan 16, 01:42.
    "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
    Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

  • #2
    I would rather be in a Thunderbolt than a 190, but the 190 is a more significant design.
    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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    • #3
      The Fw 190 was a bit more versatile than the P-47. The Germans tried it out with a variety of weapons and uses the P-47 never saw.
      Although it didn't work, it was tried as a torpedo bomber (A-5/U 14 and 15). It flew with guided bombs and missiles (the POS X-4). It came in two dedicated fighter bomber variants the F and G.
      There was a night fighter version.
      The never built A-9 was to be a ramming fighter with reinforced wings.

      Comment


      • #4
        It's all right attributing aircraft to a myriad of rolls but the benchmark should be how good they performed in those rolls. The P47 did it's dedicated rolls superbly.

        Paul
        ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
        All human ills he can subdue,
        Or with a bauble or medal
        Can win mans heart for you;
        And many a blessing know to stew
        To make a megloamaniac bright;
        Give honour to the dainty Corse,
        The Pixie is a little shite.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Dibble201Bty View Post
          It's all right attributing aircraft to a myriad of rolls but the benchmark should be how good they performed in those rolls. The P47 did it's dedicated rolls superbly.

          Paul
          Great minds think alike, Paul. It's not just how many different roles a plane had. It's also how well the various roles were performed for a start (as you have already said); as well as to what extent, in what numbers and to what effect. What was the collective significance of all those roles for that airplane? What was their usefulness? And what was the degree of influence (if any) that arose from the sum of its performed roles, as well as on future designs?

          A lot of stuff to juggle there and in many cases during this campaign the decisions will not be at all easy. I'd wager that a few will be very challenging indeed.
          "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
          Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

          Comment


          • #6
            The way the P47 was used by the US ,paved the way for the 70 years of air support theory after ww2.
            A brilliant machine capable of virtually everything.
            That rug really tied the room together

            Comment


            • #7
              When the 190 came out (much earlier than the P47):
              ""The Focke Wulf 190 certainly gave the British a shock", wrote Douglas Bader in his autobiography Fight for the sky; "it out-climbed and out-dived the Spitfire. Now for the first time the Germans were out-flying our pilots." They were also outgunning them. For the best part of the year, and until the arrival of the Spitfire Mk IX [the Fw 190] commanded the skies"

              The P47 cannot say that at any point in its career. The 190 on its fighter status alone was more significant and influential than the P47. The P47 was a great air superiority and ground attack fighter later in the war against a defeated enemy. To me, not the same thing as it regards design influence and significance.
              TO me the P47 was very effective but not so influential as the 190 which also happend to be very effective.
              "Amateurs study tactics; professionals study logistics"
              -Omar Bradley
              "Not everyone who studies logistics is a professional logistician, and there is no way to understand when you don't know what you don't know."
              -Anonymous US Army logistician

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              • #8
                To be honest, I'm really struggling with this one. I think a good case can be made for both types. I'll let it simmer for a while longer before I decide.
                "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Gabby says it.

                  Credo quia absurdum.


                  Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dibble201Bty View Post
                    It's all right attributing aircraft to a myriad of rolls but the benchmark should be how good they performed in those rolls. The P47 did it's dedicated rolls superbly.

                    Paul
                    The question posed is significance and influence - and the FW had more influence over contemporary designs.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
                      Great minds think alike, Paul. It's not just how many different roles a plane had. It's also how well the various roles were performed for a start (as you have already said); as well as to what extent, in what numbers and to what effect. What was the collective significance of all those roles for that airplane? What was their usefulness? And what was the degree of influence (if any) that arose from the sum of its performed roles, as well as on future designs?

                      A lot of stuff to juggle there and in many cases during this campaign the decisions will not be at all easy. I'd wager that a few will be very challenging indeed.
                      How well an aircraft performed was also dependent on time-line and assignment.

                      Strap a torpedo on an early P-47 and see how she would compare.
                      Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

                      Prayers.

                      BoRG

                      http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

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                      • #12
                        One of the few times I will not be voting with the herd .

                        The FW190 drove the Spitfire from the skies of France when it first came out. It remains a far more influential plane than the P-47 as a result.
                        How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
                        Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Salinator View Post
                          How well an aircraft performed was also dependent on time-line and assignment.

                          Strap a torpedo on an early P-47 and see how she would compare.
                          To the first: Yes, obviously. Time, place and circumstances of operation are certainly going to be very important; as are the machine itself and the human factors as well.

                          To the second: Never thought of that idea in relation to the P-47. But ... not sure where you are going with this?


                          Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
                          One of the few times I will not be voting with the herd .

                          The FW190 drove the Spitfire from the skies of France when it first came out. It remains a far more influential plane than the P-47 as a result.
                          Out of the 64 Round 1 polls, this is the only one I haven't voted in yet. I lean first one way and then the other. What you've said about the Fw 190 has very considerable validity. However, aside from the fact that I find the two types approximately equal in "multi-role-ness" I can also see some compelling arguments for significance/influence to support the Jug; although they are of a somewhat different kind.

                          To me, these two planes are so close to evenly matched against the criteria for this contest, that I may well end up just giving my vote to whichever one is behind in the polling; simply to reflect my feelings in this regard.
                          Last edited by panther3485; 18 Dec 15, 09:28.
                          "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                          Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

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                          • #14
                            Another one I'm going to have to come back to.
                            ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

                            BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

                            BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

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                            • #15
                              Given that the P47 formed the nucleus of so many post WW2 air forces it can be said to have been influential at least.
                              Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                              Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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