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Rnd 1 Grp F - Messerschmitt Me 262 (Germany) vs Grumman F8F Bearcat (USA)

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  • Rnd 1 Grp F - Messerschmitt Me 262 (Germany) vs Grumman F8F Bearcat (USA)

    Round 1, Group F: Messerschmitt Me 262 Schwalbe (Germany) vs Grumman F8F Bearcat (USA)




    Candidate #86 - Messerschmitt Me 262 Schwalbe (Germany)

    Service Intro - 1944
    Roles - day & night fighter; fighter-bomber; recon; trainer
    Quantity Produced - 1,433
    User Nations - Germany, Czechoslovakia (post WW2)

    For further info & some technical details, you can start with Wiki here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_262









    Candidate #88 - Grumman F8F Bearcat (USA)

    Service Intro - 1945
    Roles - day & night fighter; fighter-bomber; recon
    Quantity Produced - 1,265
    User Nations - USA, France, Thailand, South Vietnam

    For further info & some technical details, you can start with Wiki here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_F8F_Bearcat









    Will you vote for the Schwalbe (Swallow) or the Bearcat?


    Only one of these two candidates will make it to the next round!


    Which of them is the more significant and/or influential?


    Consider the criteria with care! You decide!
    92
    Messerschmitt Me 262 (Germany)
    78.26%
    72
    Grumman F8F Bearcat (USA)
    21.74%
    20

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by panther3485; 20 Dec 15, 10:35.
    "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
    Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

  • #2
    Me 262.
    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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    • #3
      The Bearcat was conceived as the smallest fighter you could build around an R-2800 engine. It was designed as a fleet interceptor aircraft with a high rate of climb and good top speed. In that role it would have excelled. In anything else, it was too short ranged, lacked the size and capacity for real development into something multi-role.

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      • #4
        It was/is popular on the racing circuit.
        TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
        “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz
        Present Current Events are the Future's History

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        • #5
          In this case I'm judging "multi-role-ness" first; significance/influence second. I find the two types roughly equal in the first aspect but the 262 wins in the second.

          Me 262.
          "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
          Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

          Comment


          • #6
            Okay the 262 is the first real jet fighter. But everybody shot it down. Is it going to win every contest? It was a looser from a looser state. Edit profanity included. Don't get me started. Please.
            Credo quia absurdum.


            Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

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            • #7
              In terms of influential the 262 was nowhere - the Soviets built a single copy and the Czechs built and operated a couple of squadrons worth and that was it - nothing was developed on the basis of it. The Vampire and the P70 were more influential - a poor pairing
              Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
              Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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              • #8
                Not a great pairing, but I vote for the Bearcat. The 262 is not a multi-role plane in my opinion.
                History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon. Napoleon Bonaparte
                _________
                BoRG
                __________
                "I am Arthur, King of the Britons!"

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
                  Okay the 262 is the first real jet fighter. But everybody shot it down. Is it going to win every contest? It was a looser from a looser state. Edit profanity included. Don't get me started. Please.
                  Shot down while landing or at take off. Few were shot down in air to air combat at altitude.

                  A loser state but what did it take for it to lose?
                  "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                  Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                  you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Remember this is comparing the aircraft, not the nations that developed them.
                    My vote was based on my assessment of their relative significance/influence factor which, while sometimes IMHO over-rated for the Me 262, was nevertheless there to some extent; at least, a bit more so than the Bearcat I think.

                    @ Bwaha: Don't panic, this is only Round 1.
                    I didn't expect either of these aircraft to make it to the end and I still don't. We're talking multi-role first and foremost in this contest and I don't see either type as particularly strong in that regard.
                    Indeed, I rated them as so close to equally weak in the multi-role arena that overall significance/influence, in my opinion, was the only way I could decide.
                    Sorry, mate.
                    Last edited by panther3485; 15 Dec 15, 18:36.
                    "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                    Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
                      Okay the 262 is the first real jet fighter. But everybody shot it down. Is it going to win every contest? It was a looser from a looser state. Edit profanity included. Don't get me started. Please.
                      Hey, at least American planes have home-field advantage on this tournament, how about that?
                      It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.

                      Косово је Србија!
                      Never go to war with a country whose national holiday celebrates a defeat in 1389.

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                      • #12
                        Panther I'm not panicking. I'm just sick of neo's

                        Can we clean this forum up? Please?
                        Credo quia absurdum.


                        Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by nikolas93TS View Post
                          Hey, at least American planes have home-field advantage on this tournament, how about that?
                          Nick, I've got a serious bias as far as planes go. The russkies got some serious contenders. But its gonna come down to a contest between the Mossie and the Eagle.

                          And the Eagle wins due to the decades of usage. F-15E rules the clouds.
                          Credo quia absurdum.


                          Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
                            Panther I'm not panicking. I'm just sick of neo's

                            Can we clean this forum up? Please?
                            Sorry mate but that kind of "cleaning up" is well above my pay grade.

                            I see what you mean though; and judged by other criteria I think the Bearcat was actually a better aircraft in most practical ways. I even find it better to look at. And IIRC from my reading the French in particular seem to have had a good relationship with it?

                            Regards,
                            P.


                            Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
                            Nick, I've got a serious bias as far as planes go. The russkies got some serious contenders. But its gonna come down to a contest between the Mossie and the Eagle.

                            And the Eagle wins due to the decades of usage. F-15E rules the clouds.
                            You may be right about the finalists; but we won't be sure 'til we get there, I guess. Let's see. And even if you are right, for me the journey in these contests is usually more entertaining than the final destination.
                            "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                            Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Back to the subject I've got a thing for Grumman products. They built some fine planes. My personal favorite is the Tigercat. A true work of art.

                              Credo quia absurdum.


                              Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                              Comment

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