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Rnd 1 Grp F - Lockheed P/F-80 & F-94 (USA) vs Grumman F9F Panther & Cougar (USA)

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  • Rnd 1 Grp F - Lockheed P/F-80 & F-94 (USA) vs Grumman F9F Panther & Cougar (USA)

    Round 1, Group F: Lockheed P/F-80 Shooting Star & F-94 Starfire (USA) vs Grumman F9F Panther & Cougar (USA)



    Candidate #89 - Lockheed P/F-80 Shooting Star & F-94 Starfire (USA)
    (Includes 6,557 T-33 trainer version of F-80)

    Service Intro - 1945
    Roles - fighter; trainer; ground attack; recon
    Quantity Produced - 9,127
    User Nations - USA + about 40 other countries

    For further info & some technical details, you can start with Wiki here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockhe..._Shooting_Star
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_T-33
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-94_Starfire









    Candidate #94 - Grumman F9F Panther & Cougar (USA)

    Service Intro - 1949
    Roles - ground attack; fighter; recon: FAC
    Quantity Produced - 3,375
    User Nations - USA, Argentina

    For further info & some technical details, you can start with Wiki here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_F9F_Panther
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_F-9_Cougar









    Which combo will you vote for? The Shooting Star/Starfire or the Panther/Cougar?


    Only one of these two candidates will make it to the next round!


    Which of them is the more significant and/or influential?


    Consider the criteria with care! You decide!
    77
    Lockheed P/F-80 Shooting Star & F-94 Starfire (USA)
    67.53%
    52
    Grumman F9F Panther & Cougar (USA)
    32.47%
    25

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by panther3485; 04 Dec 15, 08:38.
    "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
    Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

  • #2
    Shooting Star was more significant.
    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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    • #3
      Both very worthy candidates here in terms of their qualities and on a plane-to-plane basis not so easy to decide.
      Therefore, I'll let the numbers decide in this case.
      9,127 vs 3,375.
      Stars trump cats.
      "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
      Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

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      • #4
        I picked the Panther because the first time I saw the Blue Angles they flew the F9F, I still remember sitting on my dads shoulders watching them fly.
        Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

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        • #5
          Another two well matched aircraft. Significance in numbers. I went with the Stars as well.
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          • #6
            Oh boy! My earlier comments at other dogfights about mismatching sure don't apply here! Great work Panther!

            Even though the the Panther was arguably the more advanced f the two in strict design terms, both of these aircraft were 'rushed' into production in the hope of making the end of the war. The P-80 went from drawing board to first test flight in 180 days. (This airplane killed one of it's early test pilots, Major Richard I. "Bing" Bong, the top scorer in the Pacific theater).

            The main reason I feel this design was picked to equip the postwar U.S. Air Force was it's significantly larger production run and more liberally available spare parts. Lockheed had tooled up for war footing and needed the contract. Grumann were already solvent, so got to equip the Navy instead with it's smaller production 'run'.

            The 'Panther' must have been the more robust aircraft for the Navy to give it the nod, with better flying qualities.

            I think it was a plitical decsiion to give Lockheed the contract, and that made their design far more influential on that basis alone. If the Navy 'Panthers' were an inferior aircraft, why did the Navy stick with them at all?

            Controversy abounds here. Both aircraft were 'rushed', particularly the Lockheed.

            PANTHER for me. It influenced some of the best pilots around in a favourable manner, and set the stage for the great Navy carrier jets of the future.

            And, why wouldn't you vote for it on that basis alone?
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            • #7
              If you want a good comparison with the P/F-80, it would be the British Meteor. The "Meat box" went through some of the same gyrations the P-80 did, only the modifications weren't taken nearly as far.

              Both were turned into trainers and night fighters. But, the F-94 went further than the Meteor in terms of conversion. the Meteor never received more than the original gun armament or afterburners leaving its performance by 1950 as pretty marginal.

              As the T-33 trainer, I'd say it is hard to beat for both longevity and versatility. The T-33 (TV-2 in USN use as a trainer) was converted later into the RT-33A reconnaissance plane, and in several smaller air forces into a COIN / ground attack bird (AT-33) in addition to being a trainer.
              The Bolivian Air Force is still actively flying T-33 today. The last T-33 (an NT-33) was phased out of US service in 1997.
              The T-33 as the TV-2D and DT-33 operated as a drone target for both the US Navy and USAF.

              All-in-all a pretty amazing record for a plane first designed in 1944.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                If you want a good comparison with the P/F-80, it would be the British Meteor. The "Meat box" went through some of the same gyrations the P-80 did, only the modifications weren't taken nearly as far.
                Although the P-80 was never fitted with turbo props!
                Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                  Although the P-80 was never fitted with turbo props!
                  Only Britain could take an airplane and make a two steps to the rear conversion out of it!

                  But, maybe that was because Republic did it with the XP-84H...

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                  • #10
                    Lockheed P/F-80 Shooting Star & F-94 Starfire (USA)

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