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Rnd 5 - Messerschmitt Me 262 (Germany) vs McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle (USA)

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  • #31
    Obviously the Eagle is a better aircraft than the 262 but which one was the first to engage in jet combat,albeit against prop ac's.

    You could say the Meteor saw combat because it shot down some V1's but that's more like high speed target practice,it's hardly combat.

    Even 70 years later the 262 is remembered for its innovation and the stir it caused among allied pilots, it firmly pointed its nose and ours at the jet age lurking just a few years around the corner.

    AFAIC Hitlers meddling with the project and the chronic shortage of exotic metals merely adds to the mystique of this remarkable aircraft, if it hadn't been for that it could have been in service in 42 over Dieppe, in amongst the rhubarbs and rodeos, also perhaps during Case Blue on the EF.

    The mind recoils at what could have happened ; No daylight bomber offensive until we have our own equally capable but long range jets!!?

    An almost complete aversion to flying anything over Europe in daylight?

    Very little photo recce int for Overlord?

    What if the tech had been made better use of in Japan?

    The 飲み込みます is what you get.

    The Eagle is a World class ac but at the end of the day it's just another twin engine jet with an excellent combat record.
    Exactly like the F4.......................But better.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
      In this match up you have the Me 262 which in the big picture is now just one of a number of early jet fighters (He 280, Meteor, P-59) to appear. It had no real influence on future aircraft design beyond the contribution of aeronautical data on swept wings.

      The F-15 represents a new generation of aircraft that was revolutionized by the use of computer modelling and design. It was the first to really make major use of that and it shows not just in the F-15 but in why so many other aircraft in the next 20 years look vaguely similar to it.

      The F-15 took the fighter to a new level of excellence.
      The Me 262 was one of several first generation jets and potentially one of the best but it was also crippled by its terrible engines and iffy manufacturing standards.
      In the end the Me 262 lead the way in design technology. In many ways the F 15 is very capable machine with 'older' and 'safer' technology compared to an F 16 which latter at the time was truly revolutionary. The F 16 for this reason should have stayed in the contest IMHO. But you knew my take on this already
      The repetition of affirmations leads to belief. Once that belief becomes a deep conviction, you better wake up and look at the facts.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by johns624 View Post
        Who knows? The final history of the F-15 hasn't been written yet...
        I hope it does not get the opportunity to greatly increase its historical rep.

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        • #34
          ALL PARTICIPATING MEMBERS: URGENT NOTICE!

          Hi everyone,

          I am running a 24-hour snap-poll among these threads, exclusively for the participating members of this campaign. (The minimum requirement is that you need to have voted in at least two Rounds so far.)

          The purpose of the poll is to allow you guys to decide the pairings for the next Round, which will be the Semi-Final.

          http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...86#post3036086

          "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

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          • #35
            Originally posted by flash View Post
            Obviously the Eagle is a better aircraft than the 262 but which one was the first to engage in jet combat,albeit against prop ac's.

            You could say the Meteor saw combat because it shot down some V1's but that's more like high speed target practice,it's hardly combat.

            Even 70 years later the 262 is remembered for its innovation and the stir it caused among allied pilots, it firmly pointed its nose and ours at the jet age lurking just a few years around the corner.

            AFAIC Hitlers meddling with the project and the chronic shortage of exotic metals merely adds to the mystique of this remarkable aircraft, if it hadn't been for that it could have been in service in 42 over Dieppe, in amongst the rhubarbs and rodeos, also perhaps during Case Blue on the EF.

            The mind recoils at what could have happened ; No daylight bomber offensive until we have our own equally capable but long range jets!!?

            An almost complete aversion to flying anything over Europe in daylight?

            Very little photo recce int for Overlord?

            What if the tech had been made better use of in Japan?

            The 飲み込みます is what you get.

            The Eagle is a World class ac but at the end of the day it's just another twin engine jet with an excellent combat record.
            Exactly like the F4.......................But better.
            Except that the cure for a reliable Me 262 is simply focus on fuel. A single 262 flight requires 3 to 4 times the fuel an Me 109 sortie requires. In a nation with limited fuel resources the 262 is still self-defeating.

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            • #36
              Just realised I voted Me262 ahead of the F-15 . I must have been having a bad day .
              How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
              Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
                " ... I must have been having a bad day" .
                I'll accept that explanation.
                "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                Comment

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