Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Rnd 5 - North American P-51 Mustang (USA) vs McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II (USA)

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Rnd 5 - North American P-51 Mustang (USA) vs McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II (USA)

    Round 5 (Quarter-Final): North American P-51 Mustang (USA) vs McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II (USA)


    North American P-51 Mustang
    The P-51 Mustang was used during World War II, the Korean War and other conflicts. It had been conceived, designed and built by North American Aviation (NAA) in response to a specification by the British Purchasing Commission. The Mustang was originally fitted with the Allison V-1710 engine, which had limited high-altitude performance. The change to a Rolls-Royce Merlin in the P-51B/C model transformed the Mustang's performance at altitudes above 15,000 ft, matching or bettering that of the Luftwaffe's fighters; and it turned a good fighter plane into a truly outstanding one. The Mustang was found to be suitable for a variety of roles but its perceived forte in WW2 - and perhaps its greatest contribution to the final winning of the war - was as a long-range escort fighter in 1944 and 1945. Shepherding fleets of B-24 and B-17 bombers deep into German airspace, it became the first Allied fighter that had not only the required range to go that far, fight, and return home; but also the ability to mix it with the best German piston-engined fighters on equal terms or better. Indeed, by forcing the Germans to continuously engage large numbers of the excellent P-51s in their efforts to intercept American bombers, the Luftwaffe fighter arm - already in qualitative decline after years of attrition - was attrited even more heavily and quickly. This was a major factor in the steeply accelerated decline of the Jagdwaffe's effectiveness over the last year of WW2, which helped to ensure Allied air superiority for the invasion and re-taking of Western Europe. In the later stage of the war, the P-51 was also significant as a long-range fighter against the Japanese.
    At the start of the Korean War in 1950, the Mustang was the main fighter of the United Nations until jet fighters such as the F-86 took over this role. Despite the advent of the jets, the Mustang remained in service with some air forces until the early 1980s.

    McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II
    The F-4 Phantom II is a tandem two-seat, twin-engine, all-weather, long-range supersonic jet interceptor fighter/fighter-bomber originally developed for the United States Navy. It first entered service in 1960 and, proving highly adaptable, was also adopted by the U.S. Marine Corps and the U.S. Air Force. By the mid-1960s it had become a major part of their respective air wings. The Phantom is a large fighter with a top speed of over Mach 2.2. It can carry more than 18,000 pounds (8,400 kg) of weapons on nine external hardpoints, including air-to-air missiles, air-to-ground missiles, and various bombs. During the Vietnam War the F-4 was used extensively and it served as the principal air superiority fighter for both the Navy and Air Force, and became important in the ground-attack and aerial reconnaissance roles late in the war. The Phantom has the distinction of being the last U.S. fighter flown to attain ace status in the 20th century. The F-4 continued to form a major part of U.S. military air power throughout the 1970s and 1980s, being gradually replaced by more modern aircraft such as the F-15 and F-16 in the U.S. Air Force, F-14 in the U.S. Navy, and the F/A-18 in the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps. The F-4 Phantom II remained in use by the U.S. in the reconnaissance and Wild Weasel (Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses) roles in the 1991 Gulf War, finally leaving service in 1996. Phantom production ran from 1958 to 1981, with a total of 5,195 built, making it the most numerous American supersonic military aircraft.


    Does the P-51 measure up better for significance/influence or does that honour belong to the F-4? Will you vote Mustang or Phantom II?

    Only one of these two candidates will make it to the Semi-Final!


    Which of them is the more significant and/or influential?




    Candidate #70 - North American P-51 Mustang (USA)

    Full Service From (approx) 1942
    Quantity produced - 15,576
    User Nations - USA and many other nations (See Wiki link below)

    For further info & some technical details, you can start with Wiki here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_A...n_P-51_Mustang











    Candidate #111 - McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II (USA)

    Full Service From (approx) 1961
    Quantity produced - 5,195
    User Nations - USA and 11 other countries (See Wiki link below)

    For further info & some technical details, you can start with Wiki here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonne...F-4_Phantom_II









    Consider the criteria with care! You decide!
    91
    North American P-51 Mustang (USA)
    67.03%
    61
    McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II (USA)
    32.97%
    30

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by panther3485; 01 May 15, 10:40.
    "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

  • #2
    It's a hard choice and I voted mustang simply because of its serves with SAAF in Korea.
    you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

    CPO Mzinyati

    Comment


    • #3
      A very close race! I went with the F-4 because it could land on aircraft carriers and the P-51 could not.

      Pruitt
      Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

      Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

      by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

      Comment


      • #4
        The Mustang, a true war-winning aircraft (the other being the S......e).
        "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
        Samuel Johnson.

        Comment


        • #5
          The 'Tang for obvious reasons.
          Credo quia absurdum.


          Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

          Comment


          • #6
            P-51

            P-51 won the Air War over Germany for the Allies.

            How more significant do you want a fighter to be?
            BoRG

            You may not be interested in War, but War is interested in You - Leon Trotski, June 1919.

            Comment


            • #7
              I went with the F4. It's the only US plane that the Soviets tried to develop a special missile for it. It wasn't IR or Radar homing, it homed in on smoke.

              Comment


              • #8
                The P-51 was a good fighter design and typical of mid WW 2 practice. It was the first production fighter to successfully integrate a laminar flow wing into the design. Others had tried but none were successful on a production level.

                As an offensive fighter plane it was quite good and could hold its own with anything out there.

                The F-4 represents what is really the first widely used and successful missile fighter to come along. There were others that were in service before the F-4 but none were really successful using just missiles for armament. In this respect it was a very significant aircraft that would change how air warfare would be fought in the future.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                  The P-51 was a good fighter design and typical of mid WW 2 practice. It was the first production fighter to successfully integrate a laminar flow wing into the design. Others had tried but none were successful on a production level.

                  As an offensive fighter plane it was quite good and could hold its own with anything out there.

                  The F-4 represents what is really the first widely used and successful missile fighter to come along. There were others that were in service before the F-4 but none were really successful using just missiles for armament. In this respect it was a very significant aircraft that would change how air warfare would be fought in the future.
                  the fact they gave the F4 a gun kind of proofs missiles only is a stupid idea.
                  you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

                  CPO Mzinyati

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by andrewza View Post
                    the fact they gave the F4 a gun kind of proofs missiles only is a stupid idea.
                    Sure, but the system worked reasonably well. The F 4 could fight with missiles. It could do better when a gun was added back in.

                    But, new technology is often that way. The first solution is not always the best solution. Eventually the "best" solution is arrived at through previous problems encountered.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      - near end of piston fighter development v mid jet fighter development

                      Let's go with the jet

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        P-51 influenced not only design but doctrine for bomber escort and probably shortened the war. The Phantom II was an overengined, ugly piece of junk. Did I mention ugly?

                        Susie
                        Will no one tell me what she sings?--
                        Perhaps the plaintive numbers flow
                        For old, unhappy, far-off things,
                        And battles long ago:
                        -William Wordsworth, "The Solitary Reaper"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This is a tough one. We all know what the P51 brings to the table. And fame carries it's own significance.

                          But the F-4 might win this matchup for me. It's a big airframe, with room for updated electronics and avionics. An updated F-4 would be quite deadly, 50 years after she arrived. In other words, it could theoretically do well today if updated.

                          The F-4 pointed to the future. The P-51, despite it's innovations, was the end of a fine line.

                          At the same time, this is the Mustang we are talking about. There isn't a car named after the F-4. I don't recall a Russian version of Goering commenting on F-4s flying overhead.

                          Significance and influence. On who or what? Future designs, conflicts, history, or kids building 1/48 Mustangs and Spitfires bought with their paper route money?
                          ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

                          BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

                          BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post
                            Significance and influence. On who or what? Future designs, conflicts, history, or kids building 1/48 Mustangs and Spitfires bought with their paper route money?
                            All of the above and more, in varying measures. Significance in any sense you can discover; influence over anyone and anything, from introduction to service until the present day.
                            "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              F4 for me, it was the first of the brutally powerful twins and served every one of its countries perfectly for decades, it was never on a losing side even in Iran-Iraq.
                              The P51 is a beautiful plane ,simply stunning, but as a piston engined aircraft was just about the end of the road.

                              Comment

                              Latest Topics

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X