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Rnd 3 Grp CD - Grumman F4F Wildcat (USA) vs Mitsubishi A6M "Zero" (Japan)

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  • #46
    Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
    Some "ZERO" thinkers in this poll.
    Not too sure what kind of thinking I'd fall into because I'm still undecided about this one. Out of the 16 polls of Round 3, this is in the top handful of most difficult; for me at least. For quite different reasons, both planes are very deserving to go to the next Round. My fault for pairing them here, maybe, but we were going to face such difficult decisions sooner or later anyway.

    Still, I have maybe 8 - 9 days left to make up my mind.
    "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

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    • #47
      I'd say the Wildcat for being better armed and protected whereas the Zero had little to no armor and went down in flames given that it had no self sealing fuel tanks. Also the Wildcat stayed in service with the U.S. and Royal Navy even though both nations had acquired the F6F Hellcat and the F4U Corsair The FM-2 which flew from escort carriers against the U-boats and FW-200 Condor patrol bombers and fought hard against the Japanese fleet in the Phillipines with Taffy-3.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
        Not too sure what kind of thinking I'd fall into because I'm still undecided about this one. Out of the 16 polls of Round 3, this is in the top handful of most difficult; for me at least. For quite different reasons, both planes are very deserving to go to the next Round. My fault for pairing them here, maybe, but we were going to face such difficult decisions sooner or later anyway.

        Still, I have maybe 8 - 9 days left to make up my mind.
        Not gonna take another 8 days. Deciding now. The Wildcat was certainly a great plane and an extremely important one, being in the right place at a very critical time.

        The Zero, on the other hand, was all the things other members have covered already. Zero gets my vote. Not that my one vote, at this point, is likely to make much difference given that the Japanese plane already has twice as many votes as the Wildcat. But I don't think I would have felt totally OK about it whichever way I voted in this match.
        "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

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        • #49
          Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
          How do you vote for a plane called a "ZERO?"
          Same way you rate a plane that is called 4F.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by broderickwells View Post
            Same way you rate a plane that is called 4F.
            Whats that going to do with the F u 4 U
            "Ask not what your country can do for you"

            Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

            you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by broderickwells View Post
              Same way you rate a plane that is called 4F.
              Four Fs are still more significant/influential than one big fat ZERO.
              My worst jump story:
              My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
              As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
              No lie.

              ~
              "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
              -2 Commando Jumpmaster

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              • #52
                Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
                Four Fs are still more significant/influential than one big fat ZERO.

                "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
                  Four Fs are still more significant/influential than one big fat ZERO.
                  Zero was the year of service entry, Zeke was the official Allied call name.
                  But without zero, you can't have 10, or 100, or 1,000,000.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                    Whats that going to do with the F u 4 U
                    Considering the plane being compared to the Bitsashitty A6M is the Grumman Wildcat F4F, sort of apposite, don'tcha think?

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                    • #55
                      The Zero was a racing plane converted for military use. It was fearsome initially because the inexperienced opponents didn't know how to fight it. When doctrine evolved its day was done
                      Will no one tell me what she sings?--
                      Perhaps the plaintive numbers flow
                      For old, unhappy, far-off things,
                      And battles long ago:
                      -William Wordsworth, "The Solitary Reaper"

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Desiree Clary View Post
                        The Zero was a racing plane converted for military use. It was fearsome initially because the inexperienced opponents didn't know how to fight it. When doctrine evolved its day was done
                        Good Point.
                        The A6M borrowed heavily form the Hughes racer in form and landing gear- and lightness above all.

                        The integrated wing structure was also " Hughes".
                        The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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                        • #57
                          The Zero was an evolutionary dead end.
                          It was NOT a good engineering compromise. Anytime a good burst of of API hit one it was done for. The Japanese would have had to add armor and 1000 HP to make it competitive after that first year.

                          It was only important from Dec 7, 1941 until the end of Feb 1943.
                          By then the Japanese pilots had been lost to attrition. US tactics were developed and the Zero became just another target. By June of 1944 Japanese naval aviation was history. The world changed and the Zero didn't. The US had more than a dozen fast attack carriers that could make huge fighter plane sweeps.
                          This article explains the entire bloody mess the Japanese got themselves into .
                          http://www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htm

                          Saratoga (88), Wasp (76), Essex (91), Bunker Hill (91), Yorktown (91), Lexington (91), Wasp (91), Intrepid (91), Hornet (91), Franklin (91), Ticonderoga (91), Hancock (91), Bennington (91), Shangri-La (91), Independence (33), Princeton (33), Belleau Wood (33), Cowpens (33), Monterey (33), Langley (33), Bataan (33), San Jacinto (33)

                          That is 14 CV and 9 CVL carrying 1553 planes
                          This is from a hypothetical battle of Midway in which the US lost the Hornet and the Enterprise too. Where did all the boats come from? They were in US ship yards.


                          Lacking any flying skills an American pilot in a F4F could always have a good chance just taking a head on pass. The 50 BMGs were much longer ranged than the Japanese 7.7mm or cannon. Ask Jefferson DeBlanc.
                          Last edited by crosstimbers2; 14 Aug 15, 03:38.

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