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  • Introduction - Most Significant/Influential Fighter Plane

    Hi once again members, and a warm welcome to our 2nd Most Significant/Influential tournament, the

    Most Significant/Influential Fighter Plane campaign.

    There are 128 candidates starting in Round 1, with a total of 7 Rounds for you guys - the members of ACG - to decide which was the most significant and/or influential fighter aircraft of all time.

    Remember everyone, this is not a "greatest fighter" or "best fighter" contest. Yes, certainly, prowess and effectiveness as a fighter plane does come into the equation but it's only a piece of it. The whole picture of which fighter plane should be considered the most significant and/or influential, and why, is very much larger and a lot more factors have to be weighed in the balance.

    To have any chance of casting sound judgements here, members will need to take a few steps back and consider the overall significance and/or influence factors of each aircraft design, both (a) within the context of its own time and (b) against the entire history of the fighter plane from WW1 to the present.

    Among the factors you might wish to consider when evaluating each pair of candidates, may I suggest the following as possible starting points:


    (1) Net value to user nation/s; including - but not only - the plane’s combat record; considering the amount of exposure if any.

    (2) Establishment of a worthwhile edge, if any, over competing designs (that is, actual or potential competing designs); and if such an edge was established, how important was it and how long was it maintained?

    (3) The ‘ubiquity factor’: Numbers produced and longevity of service.To be fair, I suggest the numbers factor needs to be tempered to a certain extent at least, with considerations of user needs and the circumstances of the time.

    (4) Geographical extent of service: With how many nations and in how many locations around the World has this fighter served?

    (5) Design innovation: Incorporation of new and/or unique features; or being a “first” for something of significance.

    (6) Any short-term influence on fighter design.

    (7) Any long-term influence on fighter design.

    (8) Any other significant short-term impacts.

    (9) Any other significant long-term impacts.

    (10) Other factors of any kind that you believe to be relevant.


    In other words, points (1) through (9) are just a rough suggested guide to use or not use; as much or as little as you see fit.

    Members should feel completely free to factor in any criteria they believe to be appropriate; and they can assign as much or as little weight as they like to any factor that comes within their deliberations; including the ones suggested here.
    Indeed, if you wish you can simply vote for a plane because you like it. Let’s face it, many of us will tend to do that to some extent anyway whether we get ‘permission’ or not.

    The opportunity to learn as we go is always there and I know many of you will use that opportunity to good effect. However, this campaign is also very much about enjoying ourselves.


    For further information, please see footnotes below.

    Best to all,

    panther3485



    Footnotes:

    (a) On the matter of fame and the "aura of mystique"
    A good number of the fighter planes we'll be called upon to evaluate in this tournament are famous and a few of these are so famous they might be described as iconic. For the purpose of deciding most significant / influential, this is not necessarily either a negative or a positive and it can be both.
    Using the Supermarine Spitfire as my case in point, one thing that can heavily impact the way people feel about this fighter is what it came to symbolize to the people of Britain and the Commonwealth nations. It is a psychological and (for some at least) emotional matter that's not subject to measurement in the same way as speed, maneuverability, climb rate, armament and other performance/specification related factors. This psychological aspect may very well have been, and probably was, important from the morale angle during WW2; and even today it can colour some people's judgements about the aircraft. And the Spitfire is but one example because, to a greater or lesser extent something similar can apply to a good number of the other more famous fighter planes of WW2. Mustang, anyone? Whichever one of the "iconic" WW2 fighters we look at, I think we should - along with all the other questions - ask ourselves how significant and/or influential was this psychological factor, back then in the day, or now?
    I know each of you guys can decide for yourselves.

    (b) Dates for commencement of service
    For the aircraft in this campaign, the approximate service commencement dates I have given will not always exactly correspond with reference sources. This is because further reading sometimes shows that the dates given in those sources do not always necessarily align with "full" squadron service as such.
    Also, where two or more types or variants are combined as a single candidate in a poll, the year given represents whichever type/variant was the earliest in service.

    (c) Basic information on each aircraft type
    Across the 128 different aircraft types in this first round, I have included some very brief information/comments for each type. The amount of info I have presented varies a fair bit from one to the next, basically just on what I felt like saying but I don't want to clutter the scene with too much info because folks mostly won't read it anyway. I have provided Wiki links for each type so if you are like me and not an airplane buff, you can look up some more info, if you feel like it. If on the other hand if you are an airplane buff, then good for you and I'm jealous. I would have loved to be able to pull a lot more of this info straight out of my head.

    (d) If you spot a clear error on my part
    I have tried my best - within the time and resources available to me - to be accurate in the presentation of my information. However, I am aware of the chance that I might have made the odd factual error here or there. If you spot something you know isn't correct, please let me know so I can fix it as soon as possible.
    Last edited by panther3485; 10 Mar 15, 08:34.
    "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

  • #2
    Try it now.

    I just flipped the last switch (which I should have done an hour ago ).

    So you now have a lot of contest threads to read. Best of luck and may the most influential fighter win!
    Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

    Questions about our site? See the FAQ.

    Comment


    • #3
      Woohoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

      BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

      BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

      Comment


      • #4
        Guys, a few of you missed this - at least to begin with - in the last major tournament Most Significant/Influential Tank ... so just a reminder ... don't forget there are multiple pages of polls for this opening Round. 64 polls. On my screen at least, that's 3 pages worth. If you've only been voting in what you see on Page 1 (what's on your screen initially), just scroll down to the bottom or up to the top and you'll see how to get to pages 2 & 3.

        If anyone has any questions, just PM me.

        Don't be shy!
        Last edited by panther3485; 08 Mar 15, 06:50.
        "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks for another great poll, Panther!


          Now let's get down to the main business at hand:

          What will the ribbon look like?
          Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
            Thanks for another great poll, Panther!
            My pleasure, and seeing you guys enjoying it makes the effort very worthwhile.

            Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
            Now let's get down to the main business at hand:

            What will the ribbon look like?
            I do have an idea for the ribbon, which I intend to keep secret until the end, or near the end anyway. In the meantime however, I am open to suggestions.
            "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
              Hi once again members, and a warm welcome to our 2nd Most Significant/Influential tournament, the

              [LEFT][SIZE=3][COLOR=darkslategray]Most Significant/Influential Fighter Plane Campaign.
              Thank you

              Can't rep you again so soon .
              How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
              Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

              Comment


              • #8
                Enjoy these polls,but just wish I had a little more knowledge on the subject. On the plus side it seems that I voted with the majority on almost all the polls. I am not sure what that means,but I attribute it to the descriptions given which leads to a logical choice. I THINK.
                Is she crying? There's no crying in baseball.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
                  I do have an idea for the ribbon, which I intend to keep secret until the end, or near the end anyway. In the meantime however, I am open to suggestions.
                  A smaller version of this might work


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Skoblin View Post
                    A smaller version of this might work

                    Yeah, like, one on each end of the ribbon, in mirror-reverse to each other of course, with something else in the centre?
                    "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'd like to cast a vote for the Buffalo - also known as the Brewster at the time,

                      the ones that faced the Japanese onslaught in 41 -

                      don't know the official designation though - is he in there somewhere ?
                      High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It's there, SG. Just go through all the threads.
                        Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It's been a pleasure to view all these planes, and learn about a few more along the way. Thoroughly impressed with this campaign so far, took me a couple of nights to vote and I inadvertently found one I missed this morning.

                          Well done panther 3485, marvellous achievement.
                          "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
                          Ernest Hemingway.

                          In english "silence" means yelling louder than everyone else.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My father was a fighter pilot and I grew up reading everything I could about WWII fighters. This tournament will be great and I look forward to learning about non-American fighters. (I have to admit I was very Amerocentric when I was younger.) Obviously a tremendous effort has gone in to this and I want to offer my deep appreciation. In honor of your effort and my respect for you, I will not ask where the f*** is the F-105.

                            I will be up front in saying that I tend to vote based on historical significance. Hope you don't mind.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by warmoviebuff View Post
                              My father was a fighter pilot and I grew up reading everything I could about WWII fighters. This tournament will be great and I look forward to learning about non-American fighters. (I have to admit I was very Amerocentric when I was younger.) Obviously a tremendous effort has gone in to this and I want to offer my deep appreciation. In honor of your effort and my respect for you, I will not ask where the f*** is the F-105.

                              I will be up front in saying that I tend to vote based on historical significance. Hope you don't mind.

                              Hi Kevin,

                              Assume this was intended for me, so I'll reply.

                              Being "Amerocentric" as a kid is perfectly undestandable if you grew up in the USA. I was born, and grew up mostly in, the UK - migrating to Australia as a teenager. As you can guess, I was "Britcentric" as a kid; and it was all about how we gave the Germans a bloody nose with our Hurricanes and Spitfires; how the Mosquito was the best multi-role aircraft of WW2, etc etc. But of course, a number of the American planes - in particular the P-47, P-51 and B-17 - were strongly admired.

                              The "Thud" is missing mainly because I tried to focus primarily on fighters rather than fighter-bombers. Of course, it gets complicated because a good number of types fulfilled both roles, and other roles besides. Nevertheless, as far as I reasonably could, I tried to make sure that any aircraft type that did perform in the fighter-bomber role also had at the very least a substantial fighter role too and preferably was designed to be primarily a fighter in the first instance, even if it didn't always function as such.
                              The F-105 - so far as I can recall - was pretty much intended to be a ground-attack aircraft from the beginning - at least, that's what Wiki seemed to be saying and I used Wiki quite a lot, not being as well versed in planes as I am in tanks. To quote exactly from Wiki:
                              Originally designed as a single-seat, nuclear-attack aircraft ...
                              Since the Thud's original intended role seems to have been ground attack and since it appears to have been used very much more in some variation or another of ground attack than anything else, it missed the cut here.

                              Did I call 'em all exactly right? Maybe not, but I did my best.
                              Last edited by panther3485; 12 Mar 15, 17:52.
                              "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                              Comment

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