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Rnd 1 Grp G - Convair F-102 & F-106 (USA) vs Lockheed F-104 (USA)

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  • Rnd 1 Grp G - Convair F-102 & F-106 (USA) vs Lockheed F-104 (USA)

    Round 1, Group G: Convair F-102 Delta Dagger & F-106 Delta Dart (USA) vs Lockheed F-104 Starfighter (USA)


    Convair F-102 Delta Dagger & F-106 Delta Dart
    F-102: The F-102 was an American interceptor aircraft that was built as part of the backbone of the United States Air Force's air defenses in the late 1950s. Entering service in 1956, its main purpose was to intercept invading Soviet bomber fleets during the Cold War. A member of the "Century Series", the F-102 was the first operational supersonic interceptor and delta-wing fighter of the USAF. It used an internal weapons bay to carry both guided missiles and rockets. The F-102 replaced subsonic fighter types such as the Northrop F-89 Scorpion, and by the 1960s it saw limited service in the Vietnam War in bomber escort and ground-attack roles. It was supplemented by McDonnell F-101 Voodoos and, later, by McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom IIs. Many of the F-102s were transferred from the active duty Air Force to the Air National Guard by the mid-to-late 1960s, and with the exception of those examples converted to unmanned QF-102 Full Scale Aerial Target (FSAT) drones, the type was totally retired from operational service in 1976.
    F-106: The Mach-2 F-106 Delta Dart was an extensive redesign of the F-102 and became the primary all-weather interceptor aircraft of the United States Air Force from the 1960s through the 1980s. Designed as the so-called "Ultimate Interceptor", it proved to be the last dedicated interceptor in U.S. Air Force service to date. It was gradually retired during the 1980s, with the QF-106 drone conversions of the aircraft being used until 1998 under the Pacer Six Program.

    Lockheed F-104 Starfighter
    The Starfighter is a single-engine, supersonic interceptor aircraft originally developed by Lockheed for the United States Air Force (USAF). One of the "Century Series" of aircraft, it was operated by the air forces of more than a dozen nations from 1958 to 2004. The F-104 served with the USAF from 1958 until 1969, and continued with Air National Guard units until 1975. USAF F-104Cs saw service during the Vietnam War, and F-104A aircraft were deployed by Pakistan briefly during the Indo-Pakistani wars. Republic of China Air Force (Taiwan) F-104s also engaged the People's Liberation Army Air Force (China) over the disputed island of Quemoy. For a time at least, the Starfighter had a poor safety record especially in German Air Force service, which brought the aircraft into the public eye. However, once the causes of the problems were analyzed and dealt with, its record improved. The ultimate production version of the fighter model was the F-104S, an all-weather interceptor designed by Aeritalia for the Italian Air Force, which was equipped with radar-guided AIM-7 Sparrow missiles. The operational service of the Starfighter ended with its retirement by the Italian Air Force in May 2004.


    Fancy the Dagger & Dart deltas for this match, or will you be going for the Starfighter?

    Only one of these two candidates will make it to the next round!

    Which of them is the more significant and/or influential?



    Candidate #99 - Convair F-102 Delta Dagger & F-106 Delta Dart (USA)

    Full Service From (approx) 1956
    Quantity produced - 1,342
    User Nations - USA, Greece, Turkey

    For further info & some technical details, you can start with Wiki here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_F-102_Delta_Dagger
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_F-106_Delta_Dart











    Candidate #105 - Lockheed F-104 Starfighter (USA)

    Full Service From (approx) 1958
    Quantity produced - 2,578
    User Nations - USA and 14 other countries (See Wiki link below)

    For further info & some technical details, you can start with Wiki here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-104_Starfighter










    Consider the criteria with care! You decide!
    80
    Convair F-102 & F-106 Deltas (USA)
    31.25%
    25
    Lockheed F-104 Starfighter (USA)
    68.75%
    55

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by panther3485; 07 Mar 15, 11:52.
    "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

  • #2
    Two all weather interceptors competing? Neither were great dogfighters, but the F-102 ad F-106 could fly around mountains and did not try to fly through them. I hear neither could glide to save themselves!

    Pruitt
    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

    Comment


    • #3
      Only reason I voted for the Deltas was for the wing shape. Delta winged aircraft are a common sight today. Fixed, straight-winged interceptors? Not so much.

      Comment


      • #4
        The F-102 and 106 represent aircraft with a single mission profile: Intercept some enemy bomber in the worst weather and blow it out of the sky.
        The F-104 represents the first truly capable lightweight fighter that could operate in 3 dimensions. As a day fighter in clear weather the F-104 when it came out was pretty much unbeatable. It couldn't turn but it could climb, dive, and energy maneuver like nothing else in its day could.

        But 1959 the F-104 should have been a done and gone program. But, Lockheed sold the plane in ways that were not originally planned and it became the most significant NATO fighter of the 60's and 70's developing into an aircraft that its pilots truly loved.

        So, while the 102 (Duce) and 106 remained largely in only US service and only in NORAD, the F-104 went on to be a vital part of NATO and the airplane that introduced pilots in dozens of countries around the world to supersonic energy maneuvering and a whole new way of thinking about aerial combat.

        Comment


        • #5
          The F-104 on the basis of its extensive service within NATO.
          "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
          Samuel Johnson.

          Comment


          • #6
            Since the delta wing config is still in use today, I go with the Convair designs, although the F-104 was a capable aircraft. It did, however, gain a reputation as a pilot killer, being essentially a manned bullet.
            Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
              Two all weather interceptors competing? Neither were great dogfighters, but the F-102 ad F-106 could fly around mountains and did not try to fly through them. I hear neither could glide to save themselves!

              Pruitt
              They used the Six for ACM, as it handled close to the MiG-21

              For interception, the F-104 wasn't as integrated with SAGE, and had terrible range, something needed for racing toward Soviet Bombers

              Gliding?

              Very well, esp vs the no wing 104.

              And no pilot.

              The "Cornfield Bomber" was a Convair F-106 Delta Dart, operated by the 71st Fighter-Interceptor Squadron of the United States Air Force, that made an unpiloted landing in a farmer's field in Montana, suffering only minor damage, after the pilot had ejected from the aircraft. The aircraft, recovered and repaired, was returned to service, and is currently on display at the National Museum of the United States Air Force.


              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornfield_Bomber



              For this alone, you need to vote for the Six

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by BELGRAVE View Post
                The F-104 on the basis of its extensive service within NATO.
                The original 'Yard Dart', or other nickname, 'Aluminium Death Tube'

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Marathag View Post
                  The original 'Yard Dart', or other nickname, 'Aluminium Death Tube'
                  Certainly was, only alleviated in some quarters by the fitting of the British Martin-Baker ejection seat. Still on the basis of its extensive service around the world, unlike its rival, it must be regarded as the most influential.
                  "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
                  Samuel Johnson.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I went with the 102 because my cousin was on the design team at Convair.
                    And it was a great aircraft, not many plane of that time could land itself!
                    The 104 had a nickname the, Lawn Dart, that can't be a good sign...
                    Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                    Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

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                    • #11


                      Still flying as a research aircraft as well as in air shows...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Since the 104 was pressed into service as a multi-role light-weight fighter-bomber, I'll say that Lockheed's offering was more influential, as it influenced the requirements and design of the F-5, F-16, F/A-18, and arguably the MiG-29, as well.
                        I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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                        • #13
                          And you can't forget the Navy prototype of the dart. The Sea Dart took the record for world's first supersonic seaplane. With its retractable ski landing gear.
                          Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                            Since the 104 was pressed into service as a multi-role light-weight fighter-bomber, I'll say that Lockheed's offering was more influential, as it influenced the requirements and design of the F-5, F-16, F/A-18, and arguably the MiG-29, as well.
                            But they all had real wings

                            Just because you can hang bombs on something, doesn't mean you should

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              speaking just for USAF, the F-102/106 stay in service for much longer time than F-104, but in worldwide view, the F-104 were more widely used, the F-104G and S were much more advanced than US F-104A and
                              F-104C. a great Fighter plane, difficult to fly, needed badly an upward firing ejector seat (corrected in late F-104G and all 104S), neverthless a great fighter plane! i vote for the Manned Missile!!!!!!

                              _______________________________________________
                              We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give.
                              Winston Churchill

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