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Most Decisive Battle - Saratoga v Salamis (Round 5/Final)

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  • Most Decisive Battle - Saratoga v Salamis (Round 5/Final)

    The Battle of Saratoga, 1777
    The Battles of Saratoga in September and October 1777 were decisive American victories resulting in the surrender of an entire British army of 9,000 men invading New York from Canada during the American Revolutionary War. This action, often referred to in the singular as the "battle of Saratoga", was actually two battles eighteen days apart: the Battle of Freeman's Farm on September 19 and the Battle of Bemis Heights on October 7. Both actions took place on the same ground, nine miles south of Saratoga, New York.

    Forced to retreat after his defeat on October 7, General John Burgoyne and his entire army surrendered a few days later after being surrounded by much larger American militia forces. The capture of an entire British army secured the northern American states from further attacks out of Canada and prevented New England from being isolated. A major result was that France entered the conflict on behalf of the Americans, thus dramatically improving the Americans' chances in the war. The battles of Saratoga, and the entire Saratoga campaign that concluded with the surrender of Burgoyne, are commonly seen as the turning point of the Revolution.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saratoga


    The Battle of Salamis was a decisive naval battle between the Greek city-states and Persia in September, 480 BC in the strait between Piraeus and Salamis Island, an island in the Saronic Gulf near Athens.

    The Greeks were not in accord as to how to defend against the Persian army, but Athens under Themistocles used their navy to defeat the much larger Persian navy and force King Xerxes I of Persia to retreat. The Greek victory marked the turning point of the campaign, leading to the eventual Persian defeat.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Salamis
    76
    Saratoga, 1777
    38.16%
    29
    Salamis, 480 BC
    61.84%
    47
    Last edited by Boonierat; 13 Oct 08, 09:59.

  • #2
    Wow i didn't think it would be these two matched up against one and another. I don't see how Saratoga can compare to Salamis in a decisive battle.
    Life is what happens to you when your busy making other plans! Lennon - www.lufttiger.com

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    • #3
      A loss at Saratoga would have kept the U.S.A. from gaining independence, which means a lot of long-term effects on world historyt. Salamis, on the other hand, pretty much insured that the Persians would not conquer Greece, which has more short-term ans long term inplications.

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      • #4
        I voted against Midway for Saratoga. I can't change horses now. Saratoga and the USA.
        Eagles may fly; but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines!

        "I'm not expendable; I'm not stupid and I'm not going." - Kerr Avon, Blake's 7

        What didn't kill us; didn't make us smarter.

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        • #5
          I too am sticking with Saratoga and the US.
          I do like Salami.... but.
          All warfare is based on deception.
          Sun Tzu - Art of war - Chapter One - Laying Plans


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          • #6
            anti-climax

            After all these difficult choices where at times I even couldn't chose and therefore did not vote, this is almost an anti-climax

            The battle that shaped not only the classical but also the Western world and all it stands for: Salamis!
            BoRG

            You may not be interested in War, but War is interested in You - Leon Trotski, June 1919.

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            • #7
              Without a Greek victory at Salamis the western world would have developed on a completely different path. Saratoga probably would not have taken place.
              "The blade itself incites to deeds of violence".

              Homer


              BoRG

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              • #8
                have to go with Salamis, though the odds of picking these two in the final...astronomical..!

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                • #9
                  Wow, very tough decision.

                  I leaned towards Saratoga for this reason.

                  We know with pretty good certainty the consequences of what would have happened if Saratoga had went the other way. Had the Greeks lost, I can't say with certainty that things would be much different today.

                  I'm pretty sure the Persians would have met their fate regardless.

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                  • #10
                    This is a tough one...I have to go with Saratoga. No real reason other then I like the period. Both are fantastic picks.

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                    • #11
                      My heart says Saratoga, but my mind says Salamis. Deep down I know my vote, but will to sit on it for a day and see if a compelling argument for Saratoga comes this way.

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                      • #12
                        Salamis for me.
                        Best regards, Hufflepuff

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                        • #13
                          Salamis for me. I know that in many of our hearts and minds we know of greater battles. But, in my opinion, no greater decisive battle exists than Salamis. Certainly some will say (and have before) that Plataea should be paired with Salamis, but without the win against the Persian fleet, the second land battle doesn't happen. Many of the Greek City-States would have just surrendered to the Persians and not united to finish off the Persian Army at Plataea. And the reality remains that Themistocles chose his place of battle, saw the necessity of said battle, saw how it would be fought, completely understanding his navies strengths and his enemies weaknesses and followed through to victory. Decisive at every choice. Decisive in every result.
                          History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon. Napoleon Bonaparte
                          _________
                          BoRG
                          __________
                          "I am Arthur, King of the Britons!"

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                          • #14
                            I'll have to jump on the Salamis band wagon as well -- a fascinating time in history!
                            I like Dogs far better than most People

                            As our Supply Sargent once said "If'n you only got one - order one - If'n you got Two - turn one in !! (???)

                            BoRG

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                            • #15
                              Salamis hands down, no question for me.
                              "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

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