Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Most Decisive Battle - Midway v Stalingrad (Round 2)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Most Decisive Battle - Midway v Stalingrad (Round 2)

    The Battle of Midway was a major naval battle, widely regarded as the most important one of the Pacific Campaign of World War II. It took place from June 4 to June 7, 1942, approximately one month after the Battle of the Coral Sea, five months after the Japanese capture of Wake Island, and exactly six months to the day after Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor. The United States Navy decisively defeated a Japanese attack against Midway Atoll.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway

    The Battle of Stalingrad is a commonly used name in English sources for several large operations by Germany and its allies and Soviet forces conducted with the purpose of ensuring possession of the city of Stalingrad, which took place between 17 July1942 and February 2, 1943, during the Second World War.
    The results of these operations are often cited as one of the turning points of World War II. Stalingrad was the bloodiest battle in human history, with combined casualties estimated to be above 1.5 million. The battle was marked by brutality and disregard for military and civilian casualties by both sides. The German offensive to take Stalingrad, the battle inside the city, and the Soviet counter-offensive which eventually trapped and destroyed the 6th Army and other Axis forces around the city was the second large-scale defeat of the Second World War. In Soviet and Russian historiography the struggle included ten campaigns, strategic and operational level operations.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_stalingrad
    82
    Midway
    58.54%
    48
    Stalingrad
    41.46%
    34

  • #2
    I find this one a toss up, very hard to decide as both were very decisive in
    their outcome, Heck i think both were considered the turning point
    of the war as well
    Life is what happens to you when your busy making other plans! Lennon - www.lufttiger.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Very hard yes, but chose Stalingrad in the end.

      Comment


      • #4
        In my view, stalingrad was "seen" as a turning point, rather than causing it. the german advance was at the point of stalling at the time as it was.

        Midway on the other hand castrated the IJN's navy abilty and will to engage in a large scale naval battle with the USN in an offencive manner.

        The difference is that, stalingrad did not stop the German advance itself, but signifyed the begining of the end. Midway made the end the war winnable in the pacific.
        Who we are is but a stepping stone to what we may become.

        Comment


        • #5
          As much as i'm torn with this one i agree that the lost of their 4 best carriers, and their best aircrews was a blow they could not withstand nor be able to replace.

          Where as the Germans even after Stalingrad were still capable of mounting
          one of the largest offensives of the war with Kursk.
          Life is what happens to you when your busy making other plans! Lennon - www.lufttiger.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Can't help it, had to choose Stalingrad !
            The Russians had the ENORMOUS manpower that not Germany nor Japan possessed !!! This weight would have kept Germany bogged down in the east and thus automatically also in the west...
            No matter what happened, IF the Russians were ever defeated, it would'eve altered history enormously, not only in the war but also politicaly-wise...the fall of Communism !!!! It would have left the US and Britain ALONE to fight in the West AND in the East...



            Greets,
            Stratego
            Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily.- Napoleon

            It is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.- Herman Melville

            Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

            BORG

            Comment


            • #7
              Man, this was a tough one indeed! I had to go with Midway, also. Very good points raised already on both sides of this vote, but for me, it came down to what battle element went against it's counterpart, and the result was absolutely devasting for the IJN. Time-wise, strength-wise, outcome of the engagement...it was Midway.
              http://www.militarywargaming.com

              "The Golden Rule of War, Speed - Simplicity - Boldness" -- General George S. Patton, Jr

              Comment


              • #8
                Midway wasn't decisive why? The US would'eve always beat the Japanese into submission, because they had the BOMB !!!

                Sorry for being so blunt...



                Greets,
                Stratego
                Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily.- Napoleon

                It is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.- Herman Melville

                Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

                BORG

                Comment


                • #9
                  Very true Stratego, but i'm looking at the battles itself not a what if that
                  didn't happen. Just only taking in consideration of those 2 battles, not what
                  could have happend after they were fought. Even still a tuff one to call.
                  Just my thoughts on it
                  Life is what happens to you when your busy making other plans! Lennon - www.lufttiger.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Stratego View Post
                    Midway wasn't decisive why? The US would'eve always beat the Japanese into submission, because they had the BOMB !!!

                    Sorry for being so blunt...



                    Greets,
                    Stratego
                    Keep in mind there were a few days between the bombs at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, so the first bomb didn't cause them to surrender, and if Japan wins at Midway it will delay all the islands being conquered by the Americans. Without those islands being conqured, the US can't drop their bombs. Also there was another bombing mission after Nagasaki.

                    http://home.netcom.com/~jb29miss/

                    This was a tough one for me as well. I think Midway changed everything about the Battle in the Pacific and if the Americans had lost at Midway they would have had to send more troops and supplies to the Pacific which would have caused fewer troops and supplies to be available for N. Africa and then Europe. I went with Stalingrad though, because I think everything about Europe changed because of Stalingrad. I think more supplies and men would have been available in the West for the Nazis which would have made it more difficult for the Allies in the West, and the conflict in Europe would have lasted much longer.

                    "Between a battle lost and a battle won, the distance is immense and there stand empires." Napoleon

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I went with Stalingrad. I think there are direct loses at the battle, which'd favor Midway, since Germany had other armies losing for other reasons across a thousand miles of battlefront, so the material loss wasn't too much. But there is an analogy, in that Germany had x number of forces, y of them were tied down doing what they needed to do to maintain the battlefront, and (x-y) was their movable force for agressive action. Germany was spent their positive (x-y) at that point and x<y for the rest of the war. So Germany's (x-y) is kind of like Japan's carriers. In that sense, both were near equal and the agression of the war changed sides for both conflicts. So I favored Stalingrad simply for the mass of humanity involved directly at the battle and subsequently.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Good points Sgt Rock, i guess tho about less arms avaible to the west, could
                        also be because of the Battle of Kursk, and the invasion of Italy?

                        Of corse even if the Russians lost Stalingrad, they still would of won with
                        their suppior man power and production

                        I'd say this is the heavy weight match out of all the desisive battle line ups?

                        Good fun tho!
                        Life is what happens to you when your busy making other plans! Lennon - www.lufttiger.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Stratego View Post
                          Midway wasn't decisive why? The US would'eve always beat the Japanese into submission, because they had the BOMB !!!

                          Sorry for being so blunt...



                          Greets,
                          Stratego
                          Ahhh, but I wouldn't count the BOMB itself as a certainty....yes, on its repeated use to beat the Japanese into submission; no, on if the President chose not to use it, as never had such a weapon ever been employed to that date, and I am certain it was not an easy call. The age old dilemma of "just because it can be done, doesn't mean it should be done".
                          http://www.militarywargaming.com

                          "The Golden Rule of War, Speed - Simplicity - Boldness" -- General George S. Patton, Jr

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            A Loss @ Midway would have had far larger global consequences over the conduct of the war - not just in the Pacific, but in both hemispheres. Regardless... just judging the battle & its decisive impact upon the parties involved, Japan would never again wield such fomidable force & skill in combat again.

                            Midway it is, for me.

                            A tough call!


                            On the Plains of Hesitation lie the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of victory, sat down to rest-and resting... died. Adlai E. Stevenson

                            ACG History Today

                            BoRG

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I agree what the admiral says, this battle hurt IJN more so than Stalingrad hurt the Germans. Japan didn't mount another offense again with the confidence they use to have.
                              Life is what happens to you when your busy making other plans! Lennon - www.lufttiger.com

                              Comment

                              Latest Topics

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X