Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Most Decisive Battle - Cannae v Actium (Round 1)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Lasher,

    If you have ever served in the Army you would recognize the basic footwork. Ask an ex soldier if it is possible to pass through a formation and then realign the formation.

    Velites and skirmishers could withdraw around the Maniple, but I was referring to them passing through it. All the Legionary had to do is take a half step forward and turn his body at an angle. Instant lane to retreat down!

    Pruitt
    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Delenda estRoma View Post
      Not when the velites are then reformed in the rear.
      He said earlier in post #53:

      I think you can still let Velites through and then step into really close quarters.
      To do that requires they deploy in 5 by 5 order (standard), now this makes it more difficult to withdraw through the maniples since, there is 6 men in front and 24 men in depth, the distance to travel through the maniple takes (bear with me):

      290 feet (the distance between hastati and velites)+120 feet (the hastati is 24 ranks deep and 5 feet spacing deep between each man)+250 feet (spacing between hastati and principes)+120 feet (depth of the principes is the same as the hastati)+250 feet (distance between principes and triarii)+50 feet (the triarii is 10 men deep times the spacing of 5 feet)=1,080 feet deep to travel.

      There are 20 maniples in each legion, a legion occupies a front of 5*6=30 feet, just for the shortest distance to travel to a gap between maniples requires a velite go 1,110 feet.

      In short words, the bigger the gap between legionnaires, the longer it takes to withdraw through the maniple gaps.

      Ask an ex soldier if it is possible to pass through a formation and then realign.
      Ok why not Dodge? He served during the Civil War?

      I don't think Varro, Pallus or any Roman soldier can hear you.

      Comment


      • #63
        I will settle for you! Have you been talking to any such people lately?

        Pruitt
        Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

        Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

        by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
          Have you been talking to any such people lately?
          I don't live near many. In my profession engineering is very important, not necessarily military mechanics but I could compute the cost of, say, building a pilum in the ancient age, the cost of maintaining a certain army size within a given period, logistical requirements for Hannibal's march through the alps, how much a Roman supply depot can hold, or even a general idea of the water flow rate in Rome as long as I have the necessary information which actually isn't very hard to get a hold of.

          But I do meet many on internet forums, in fact the man from whom I get most of my ideas from was a naval logistician and lectured war studies for a good portion of his life. Why, did you serve?

          Comment


          • #65
            I did Basic Training at Fort Polk, way back when. My knees went bad and they asked me if I wanted out? Silly question, really to ask someone in Basic. While you seem to have an interesting grasp of Mathematics, I was wondering you had ever had to march in formation? Army moving in step and facings would help realize what the Romans could do. I don't think what I was trying to say translated to you. I was reminded of this at my Football Booster meeting tonight. The Band was doing marching on the football field.

            One way I have seen in writing for a Maniple to close ranks is for the rear Century to place itself inside the space normally given to each Legionary. I think the Velites could have ran through a regular formation and then the Maniples could have then closed the spaces. I have seen various formations in books, including Osprey that try to show what was done.

            One tip that will take you far in these forums. This isn't personal and you can't lose it and win an argument. Some of the guys here will provoke you into breaching forum rules.

            Pruitt
            Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

            Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

            by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
              While you seem to have an interesting grasp of Mathematics, I was wondering you had ever had to march in formation?
              The closest to marching in formation for me is a football analogy, but other than that no.

              One way I have seen in writing for a Maniple to close ranks is for the rear Century to place itself inside the space normally given to each Legionary. I think the Velites could have ran through a regular formation and then the Maniples could have then closed the spaces. I have seen various formations in books, including Osprey that try to show what was done.
              I'll consider it for a future debate, but what Osprey books do you refer to? Is it Healy's on Cannae or something on the Roman army, like Goldsworthy?

              One tip that will take you far in these forums. This isn't personal and you can't lose it and win an argument. Some of the guys here will provoke you into breaching forum rules.
              I post on circa 10 forums, your advice is fairly apt although I am familiar with half the names here from previous forums I've been on. Anyways I will take your caution, would you mind posting the marching standard for your band the next time you get back?

              Comment


              • #67
                That is pretty good! Asking if the Pride of McNeese has standards! I rode to Ames, Iowa with a bunch of them last March and I am unsure what kind of standards they have!

                Pruitt
                Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                Comment


                • #68
                  Back to the topic?
                  First Counsul Maleketh of Jonov

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Which topic?

                    Pruitt
                    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Preferably the title?
                      First Counsul Maleketh of Jonov

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        I don't know how he got that slave part.
                        You can't read.

                        http://rbedrosian.com/Downloads/Tarn_JHS_1907_Punic.pdf

                        Prisoners of war working as slaves were commonly bought and returned into naval service as rowers if they weren't ransomed or exchanged.

                        http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.230...21101221122461

                        In the Second Punic War, however, the evidence for the use of slaves as rowers is clear-cut and irrefutable.


                        I thought I would start with a baby step by selecting something newer than the 70's. Pickings are slim when one has to browse in the used section. I got*The Roman War Machine*by John Peddie.
                        Too bad for you, had you looked on the internet you would've found his work for free. Http://historiantigua.cl/wp-content/...ry_Library.pdf

                        Not only that but he doesn't answer your questions and gets Roman camp layout completely wrong. He cites Pyrrhus as the one who taught the Romans how to lay out camps. We all know this is wrong:

                        Plut. Pyrrhus 16:*Pyrrhus therefore went forward and pitched his camp in the plain between the cities of Pandosia and Heracleia. When he learned that the Romans were near and lay encamped on the further side of the river Siris, he rode up to the river to get a view of them; and when he had observed their discipline, the appointment of their watches, their order, and the general arrangement of their camp, he was amazed,*5*and said to the friend that was nearest him: "The discipline of these Barbarians is not barbarous; but the result will show us what it amounts to."

                        In a real siege, the wall is manned by lookouts while the bulk of the defenders except for those involved in missiles are under cover
                        Now where would this happen in Rome? The Campus Martius has insufficient room to train the men required to defend Rome, it's doubtful it even had enough ground to train a legion. The Forum Romanum was a chief shopping center and place of commerce, you clearly aren't aware of how crowded this place would be and how insufficient most of Rome inside the Servian Wall is.

                        Ravaging the Forum Romanum would cause untold damage...

                        Read more books, your post's content will be less funny.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Most Decisive Battle - Cannae v Actium

                          Both two Classic battle's, weigh in all the possible factors and I would have to say Actium was more decisive. Cannae was a military disaster for Rome but she rebounded and destroyed Carthage at Zama.Actium marked the end of the Roman Republic and ushered in the age of the Emperor's.

                          I have always been curious - Did Antony serve under Caesar in Gaul and did he possess any Roman veterans from Caesar's Legion's at Actium?.


                          visit : http://www.greatmilitarybattles.com/...of_cannae.html

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by ITALICA ONE View Post
                            Both two Classic battle's, weigh in all the possible factors and I would have to say Actium was more decisive. Cannae was a military disaster for Rome but she rebounded and destroyed Carthage at Zama.Actium marked the end of the Roman Republic and ushered in the age of the Emperor's.

                            I have always been curious - Did Antony serve under Caesar in Gaul and did he possess any Roman veterans from Caesar's Legion's at Actium?.
                            Antony did serve under Caesar in Gaul. After Caesar's assassination, Antony's bodyguards were always veterans of Caesar.
                            Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

                            Prayers.

                            BoRG

                            http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

                            Comment

                            Latest Topics

                            Collapse

                            Working...
                            X