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Greatest Blunders: Gallipoli Campaign vs Tsushima (Round 4-Semifinals)

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Drusus Nero View Post
    oh dear...this is NOT an open comp then?...

    should i delete?
    Unless the originator of the campaign asks you to, I wouldn't worry too much. Campaign threads usually remain open after the polling has closed so that members who wish to do so can still contribute opinions, comments etc. They simply are not able to vote after the poll closing date.

    We're hoping to get another campaign up and running within the next couple of months. May or may not be a subject of interest to you but it'll be open to all members.
    "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Cookie View Post
      There were it seems to me two major reasons for Gallipoli. The first was to force the Dardenelles to enable Russia to receive military supplies and ship Ukrainian grain through the Med and the second was for Russia to take over control forever there, and they needed Allied troops to help.
      According to Keith Nielson 'Kitchener - A reputation refurbished?' The Gallipoli campaign was the minimum necessary to keep Russia in the war and fighting and therefore draw German resources away from the Western Front until Kitchener's New Armies were ready to fight in France. Kitchener never expected success and committed the minimum resources practical to keep it going. That said there is some evidence that the Ottoman government concealed the extent of their losses on the peninsular and the campaign in fact acted as a sort of Eastern Verdun draining Ottoman forces of its best troops, keeping them on the defensive in Egypt and Palestine and causing the abandonment of various plans for Turkish offensives elsewhere.
      Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
      Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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      • #78
        Originally posted by MarkV View Post
        According to Keith Nielson 'Kitchener - A reputation refurbished?' The Gallipoli campaign was the minimum necessary to keep Russia in the war and fighting and therefore draw German resources away from the Western Front until Kitchener's New Armies were ready to fight in France. Kitchener never expected success and committed the minimum resources practical to keep it going. That said there is some evidence that the Ottoman government concealed the extent of their losses on the peninsular and the campaign in fact acted as a sort of Eastern Verdun draining Ottoman forces of its best troops, keeping them on the defensive in Egypt and Palestine and causing the abandonment of various plans for Turkish offensives elsewhere.
        Nevertheless, if you were on of the British or ANZACs, it was an unmitigated disaster, and the various accounts of the British government's actions and thinking don't lend much credence to the Kitchener Theory.

        Everybody else in Britain was sure it was an actual war.
        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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        • #79
          'never expected success'

          I don't believe that for a minute.

          Verdun also bled/hurt the French... and wasn't that about the time of mutinies?

          I bet Hitler and his buddies claimed afterwards that the Bulge battle was 'necessary' too. Even tho it ended up being a disaster for their forces.
          SPORTS FREAK/ PANZERBLITZ COMMANDER/ CC2 COMMANDER

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            Nevertheless, if you were on of the British or ANZACs, it was an unmitigated disaster, and the various accounts of the British government's actions and thinking don't lend much credence to the Kitchener Theory.

            Everybody else in Britain was sure it was an actual war.
            It was - but just enough to keep the Russians fighting, if they had believed that it wasn't "real" it wouldn't have worked. Of course everyone believed in it. Don't be naive, history (especially in the case of coallition warfare) is littered with feints, diversions, and actions fought for political reasons rather than military ones and they all cost lives and many were pretty disastrous for those participating. I didn't say that Kitchener, Hamilton etc intended it as a sort of Verdun just that it may have acted as one - an unintended consequence. And yes its handling may have been inept. Read the work I quoted first
            Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
            Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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            • #81
              Originally posted by MarkV View Post
              It was - but just enough to keep the Russians fighting, if they had believed that it wasn't "real" it wouldn't have worked. Of course everyone believed in it. Don't be naive, history (especially in the case of coallition warfare) is littered with feints, diversions, and actions fought for political reasons rather than military ones and they all cost lives and many were pretty disastrous for those participating. I didn't say that Kitchener, Hamilton etc intended it as a sort of Verdun just that it may have acted as one - an unintended consequence. And yes its handling may have been inept. Read the work I quoted first
              I don't buy onto your theory, I'm afraid. It was a very real and nasty war there in the Dardenelles.
              Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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              • #82
                Gallipoli was certainly a blunder.

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