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Greatest Blunders: Napoleon in Russia vs Teutoberg (Round 3-Quarterfinals)

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  • Greatest Blunders: Napoleon in Russia vs Teutoberg (Round 3-Quarterfinals)

    Napoleon’s Invasion of Russia 1812



    Why?
    Although Napoleon had organized an enormous force, he was lured ever deeper into mother Russia, resulting in the complete annihilation of his force of 500.000.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_invasion_of_Russia

    The French invasion of Russia of 1812 (also known as the Patriotic War of 1812) was a turning point in the Napoleonic Wars, which reduced the French and allied invasion forces -the Grande Armée- to a tiny fraction of their initial strength and triggered a major shift in European politics, as it dramatically fragilized the previously dominant French position on the continent. The campaign itself was marked by extreme savagery and by the fact that both sides claimed victory in every engagement; however, if the military engagements proved less decisive than before, by the end of 1812, the French defeat was clear, even though the Russians could hardly be said to have won. It did however weaken the French hegemony in Europe to such an extent that the former enemies of the French Empire, at first Prussia, then Austria were encouraged to break their alliance with France and switch camps, which would trigger the War of the Sixth Coalition.



    Battle in the Teutoburg Forest 9 AD



    Why ?
    Varus, although warned of a possible Cherusci attack under leadership of his friend Arminius, refused to heed the warning and was subsequently cut to pieces. He was completely led astray by his “good friend”. His baggage train was set up pell mell and in a disorganizely fashion between the troops – probably because he didn’t expect an attack in friendly territory. This fact hampered the troops possibility to maneuver swiftly against the German threat.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...utoburg_Forest

    The Battle of the Teutoburg Forest took place in A.D. 9 when an alliance of Germanic tribes led by Arminius (also known as "Hermann"), the son of Segimer of the Cherusci, ambushed and destroyed three Roman legions, along with their auxiliaries, led by Publius Quinctilius Varus. The battle established the Rhine as the boundary of the Roman Empire for the next four hundred years.
    63
    Napoleon in Russia 1812
    84.13%
    53
    Battle of Teutoberg 9AD
    15.87%
    10
    Last edited by Salinator; 08 Jun 10, 22:26.
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    Prayers.

    BoRG

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

  • #2
    I went with Teutoberg. The Roman's losses were all battle losses. Most of the French losses were non battle (disease, bad weather).

    Pruitt
    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
      I went with Teutoberg. The Roman's losses were all battle losses. Most of the French losses were non battle (disease, bad weather).

      Pruitt
      Good point Pruitt. Going with Teutoberg as well.
      Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

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      • #4
        The non-battle lossed even go further, IMO, to prove the colossal scale of Napoleon's blunder. The Russian campaign was a mistake the second he tried to do it. And he continued to add to the list of blunders by thinking if he could just win one more battle, everything would be okay.

        Teutoberg is not a blunder for me. It was tactical genius on the part of Arminius.
        History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon. Napoleon Bonaparte
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        BoRG
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Torien View Post
          The non-battle lossed even go further, IMO, to prove the colossal scale of Napoleon's blunder. The Russian campaign was a mistake the second he tried to do it. And he continued to add to the list of blunders by thinking if he could just win one more battle, everything would be okay.

          Teutoberg is not a blunder for me. It was tactical genius on the part of Arminius.
          I agree completely - you don't have to have only battle losses to make something a huge blunder. Those loses were due to a poorly planned military campaign. The fact that far less died from fighting makes it even worse of a blunder.
          Кто там?
          Это я - Почтальон Печкин!
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          • #6
            Based on the loss of life I went with Napoleon in Russia. I was a bad idea from Day 1 and was driven by the ego of one man. Teutoberg was basic stupidity on the part of a politician pretending to be a general. It did have a long lasting effect on European history however 500,000 dead Frenchmen has to give the edge to Napoleon's blunder in invading Russia.
            God Save The Republic.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Torien View Post
              The non-battle lossed even go further, IMO, to prove the colossal scale of Napoleon's blunder. The Russian campaign was a mistake the second he tried to do it. And he continued to add to the list of blunders by thinking if he could just win one more battle, everything would be okay.

              Teutoberg is not a blunder for me. It was tactical genius on the part of Arminius.
              I'm with Torien on this one. Nappy's Russian Campaign is legendary among strategic blunders. There simply is no other word for it. That so many of the casualties were not battle inflicted is adding insult to injury, not making it less of a blunder. The normally brilliant Bonaparte should have planned for conditions in Russia, since going there was his plan anyway.
              "The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made."
              — Groucho Marx

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Torien View Post
                The non-battle lossed even go further, IMO, to prove the colossal scale of Napoleon's blunder. The Russian campaign was a mistake the second he tried to do it. And he continued to add to the list of blunders by thinking if he could just win one more battle, everything would be okay.

                Teutoberg is not a blunder for me. It was tactical genius on the part of Arminius.
                I totally agree.

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                • #9
                  Teutoberg! Come on, it is the Romans!
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                  BoRG

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                  • #10
                    I disagree. The Romans were defeated fair and square. Having an inept General IMO doesn't qualify for supreme blunderhood.

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                    • #11
                      I'm with Torien here.

                      Teotoburger Wald, a slightly less-than-ept general and having treacherous 'allies' - neither of whom really makes it in the epic blunder stakes.

                      Nappy's 1812 march... defies belief in many ways. On a wing and a prayer? IF all had gone according to 'plan', perhaps it wouldn't have been too great a debacle. As it was?

                      ...yeah.
                      Captain Khryses, Silver Star Omnilift Wing

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                      • #12
                        Blunder fans..........

                        Get your votes in, Round 3 Polls are set to close in 24 hours!

                        _______________

                        BoRG
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                        Prayers.

                        BoRG

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                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

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                        • #13
                          Round 3 Polls are now closed. Wildcards need to be submitted within 24 hours and declared publicly. Please feel free to continue discussions as all threads remain open. Stay tuned for Round 4!


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                          BoRG

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                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

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