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Greatest Blunder - Lechfeld vs Stirling Bridge (Round 1)

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  • Greatest Blunder - Lechfeld vs Stirling Bridge (Round 1)

    Battle of Lechfeld 955



    Why?
    The Magyars could have taken Otto in the flank and overwhelm him, but decided instead to take the loot from the baggage train.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lechfeld

    The Battle of Lechfeld, often seen as the defining event for holding off the incursions of the Hungarians into Western Europe, was a decisive victory by Otto I the Great, King of the Germans, over the Hungarian leaders, the harka (military leader) Bulcsú and the chieftains Lél and Súr. Located south of Augsburg, the Lechfeld is the flood plain that lies along the Lech River.


    Battle of Stirling Bridge 1297



    Why?
    Impatience led the Earl of Surrey to let his superior force to cross the narrow bridge over the Forth in front of the enemy. Halfway through, the English were attacked by the Scots and although the English still had a substantial force to achieve a victory, having lost their vanguard, decided to retreat instead...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stirling_Bridge

    The Battle of Stirling Bridge was a battle of the First War of Scottish Independence. On 11 September 1297, the forces of Andrew Moray and William Wallace defeated the combined English forces of John de Warenne, 7th Earl of Surrey and Hugh de Cressingham near Stirling, on the River Forth.
    93
    Battle of Lechfeld 955
    54.84%
    51
    Battle of Stirling Bridge 1297
    45.16%
    42
    Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

    Prayers.

    BoRG

    http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

  • #2
    Lechfeld is going down!
    Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

    Prayers.

    BoRG

    http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Salinator View Post
      Lechfeld is going down!
      Not if I can help it!
      Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

      Comment


      • #4
        Bah, the english didnt blunder, they just showed that they are underperformers against an enemy that can reach their homeland and thus denies them the time to train an army for month before sending them into the field and not have lots of allies to draw some fire or fight against a technologically far inferior foe.



        Btw, I did vote for Lechfeld.
        Ha, wie so stolz und hehr
        Wirft über Land und Meer
        Weithin der deutsche Aar
        Flammenden Blick.

        Comment


        • #5
          Lechfield? Where was that again? The Magyars really didn't want territory, they wanted what was behind door number three.
          ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
          IN MARE IN COELO

          Comment


          • #6
            Lechfield, for Kruska!
            History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon. Napoleon Bonaparte
            _________
            BoRG
            __________
            "I am Arthur, King of the Britons!"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Torien View Post
              Lechfield, for Kruska!
              Where is Kruska by the way

              I would have thought that he would be campaigning here by now !!!

              Did someone manage to bribe him?
              Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily.- Napoleon

              It is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.- Herman Melville

              Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

              BORG

              Comment


              • #8


                ...I admit nothing
                Captain Khryses, Silver Star Omnilift Wing

                Comment


                • #9
                  36 votes for Stirling Bridge !! WHY?!

                  Has anyone read up upon the Battle of Sterling Bridge - before giving away his vote?
                  The total Scottish force comprised barley 2500 men. That of the English about 10,000.
                  Yet the English lost about 5000 footsoldiers and horsemen. Obviously the blunder was not in regards to a narrow bridge but beyond the bridge were the English battle tacticts employed in general were inferior to those of the Scotts.

                  Either way it would have been 2500 Scotts before or after the Bridge that managed to kill 5000 English troops.

                  I do not see a blunder on the English side as such - besides loosing a battle due to unterstimating the Scotts military capability after the English had won an easy victory at the Battle of Dunbar.

                  Besides the Battle at Stirling Bridge having been won by the Scotts (congratulations) - it had no further impact on the Scottish-English results in history either.

                  Now that does NOT apply to the Battle of Lechfeld 955

                  Much has been talked about this plundering of the German baggage train - however this particular event had NO consequenzes on the Battle as such - since it only involved two of the eight German legions deployed towards a pincer movement upon the Magyar/Huns that had set up camp on the right bank of the Lech river - as such cutting of a retreat (if necessary) by a natural barrier.


                  The First blunder by the Magyar-Huns - despite their peace(Spy) mission some month earlier at Otto's court was their inability to gather knowledge of OTTO's new formation of a heavy cavalry unit comprising almost 2000 horsemen.

                  This "Heavy Cavalry" it's weaponary, armory and deployment strategy is the forrunner of the Knights Cavalry. That was to be a decisive battle formation for the next 500 years all over Europe.


                  The Second blunder was the Magyar-Huns wrong estimate towards the Germans not being united against them.


                  The Third blunder was not to deploy their hit and run tactics - that had led them unobstructed as far as today's Belgium, France and Northern Italy - but their greed to attack a fortified city such as Augsburg.
                  Their making camp on the left river bank - south of the city of Augsburg is what enabled Otto in the first place to deploy a pincer movement towards the Magyar-Huns.


                  The fourth blunder was that of the Magyar-Huns choosing the right(east) bank of the Lech river as a battle ground towards OTTO's approaching formation - since the territory (flat and open) seemed to be the perfect battle ground for the Hun cavalry. They however forgot, that this territory would also be perfect for OTTO's plan. - since now the river Lech was BEHIND the Huns field formation.


                  The fifth blunder of the Huns was to narrow their action on the frontline to the north - since it was held (occupied) by the soldiers at Augsburg. To the South and West the river Lech and Ach was acting as a natural boundry towards expanding Hun cavalry movements.


                  The sixth's blunder was their spliting up of forces to attack the approaching foot colums of two advancing German legions (those beholding the provisions) to the north of Augsburg - and as such neglecting their rear to Augsburg and their main camp - were Otto's main force was encircling their forward units - cutting them off from retreat to their main camp - see Battle map please.


                  The seventh blunder was their inabillity to conquer the city of Augsburg - however their greed for "treasures" convienced them to set up the above described camp - and as such depriving themselves of purely engaging in open field cavalry formation.


                  The eigth blunder was the described "baggage train plundering" which enabled OTTO's forces to advance unhindered into their rear (between Augsburg and the Hun field camp) and as such to destroy their advance unit.

                  The news of this defeat caused the Magyar leaders to concentrate all their forces at the camp, South of Augsburg - clogging a huge force of about 30-40,000 men into a restricted terrain trapped between two rivers - the Lech and the Wertach - see battle map please.

                  The ninth blunder was the actuall Battle - before the Germans had send in independed loose formations that could easily be outflanked, encircled and butchered down by the fast Hun cavalry.

                  Otto however deployed all the eight legions into solid blocks stretching from north to south and as such depriving the Huns from using outflanking and encircling manouvers. The German "heavy cavalry" was kept as an independed formation to block breakthroughs by the Huns - which failed since the terrain did not allow to Huns to outflank the Germans - as such their cavalry units were cought inbetween the flanks of the German legions and could be anhiliated.

                  The tenth blunder of the Huns, was their wild and uncoordinated fleeing to the camp upon noticing Otto's heavy cavalry breaking through their frontline as a single block and making towards their camp.

                  Please refer to the map - it shows that Not only there was just ONE river (Lech) but two others that caused the entire clogg up at the Hun camp.



                  The Huns could only flee towards the west or south-west - meaning they had to cross the river Lech - the riverbed of the river Lech is made up almost entirely of gravel/pebble stones - as such the Huns had to abandon their horses.

                  The eleventh blunder was that the Huns did forget about the garrison holding Augsburg - upon seeing the Huns fleeing they made their way south - west across the river Wertach and positioning themselves on the West side of the river Wertach - cutting down any Hun who managed to make it across the river.

                  The twelveth blunder of the Huns was that their entire leadership was concentrated at the camp and not dispered amongst their units. As such Otto's heavy cavalry could take the entire military leadership prisoners whilst the remaining huge Hun force made for a desperate and non coordinated retreat.



                  The thirteens blunder of the Huns, was not to take the population into account that had been terrorised by them for hundreds of years - thousands of farmers and peasants joined the Augsburg garrison on the West bank of the river Wertach and as such anhiliating the Huns all together.

                  The fourtheens blunder of the Huns was that they had neglected fortified strongpoints behind their lines in the east towards Bohemia and Austria. These fortified strongpoints had been occupied by small German forces - ordered by Otto to take up positions as soon as the battle at Augsburg would start.

                  The remaining Huns that had managed to flee the massacre at the Lechfeld were now entangled on their way home with these strongpoints upon their retreat to Hungaria - forcing the Huns to disperse in numerous units which were mercilessly cut down one by one by the persuing German forces in the next weeks.

                  The fifteens blunder and most disasterous blunder by the Magyar-Huns was that they had NOT relized that OTTO had prepared NOT just for a single battle - as it had always been done before - but in an overall strategy so as to ANHILIATE the Huns.

                  Otto succeeded in this and as such the HUN terror that had spread through Europe for almost 500 years was put to an end. The surviving Huns opted to settle down and refrain from terrorising Europe - as such initiating the state of Hungaria.

                  The highly sucessfull "heavy cavalry" developed into the Knights Cavalry, and OTTO being crowned King upon his massive victory at Lechfeld laid the foundation of the Holy Roman Empire of German Nations that was to last until 1648.

                  All due to the MASSIVE blunders of the HUNS at LECHFELD 955

                  Sterling Bridge - a boy-scout adventure

                  Regards
                  Kruska
                  Attached Files
                  Last edited by Kruska; 19 May 10, 09:46.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Stirling all the way
                    BoRG
                    "... and that was the last time they called me Freakboy Moses"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Arthwys View Post
                      Stirling all the way
                      This nice guy



                      says: "Sterling" EAT MY SHORTS - we use plastic

                      Regards
                      Kruska
                      Attached Files

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Salinator View Post
                        Lechfeld is going down!
                        Lechfeld already went down into history as a MASSIVE blunder at LECHFELD 955

                        Freeing Europe from the HUN terror - formation of the Knights Cavalry and as such ending the DARK AGES.

                        Regards
                        Kruska

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Can I change my vote to Stirling bridge?
                          Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

                          That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kruska View Post
                            This nice guy



                            says: "Sterling" EAT MY SHORTS - we use plastic

                            Regards
                            Kruska
                            Sturling vs Lichfeeld? Please there's truly no comparison, and really even if it got past this round ( Which it won't) it would have it's proverbial butt handed to it by the Mother of all blunders: KARANSEBES.
                            BoRG
                            "... and that was the last time they called me Freakboy Moses"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Rojik View Post
                              Can I change my vote to Stirling bridge?
                              Would you like to cause a blunder?

                              Regards
                              Kruska

                              Comment

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