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Greatest Blunder: Gallipoli vs Bay of Pigs (Round 1)

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  • Greatest Blunder: Gallipoli vs Bay of Pigs (Round 1)

    Gallipoli Campaign 1915-1916



    Why?
    This bold plan devised by Winston Churchill was intended to force the Ottoman Empire out of WW1 by a daring coup through the Dardanelles against its capital Constantinople .
    It should have been executed till the end with speed, daring and bravado; however British commanders executed it hesitantly and timidly, giving the Ottomans army ample time to react. The operation grounded down into a stalemate, leading to severe loss of life amongst Allied, in particular Anzac, personnel. Eventually the Allied troops were evacuated and the operation aborted.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallipoli_Campaign


    Bay of Pigs 1961



    Why?
    The failed Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba was a severe embarrassment to the USA, weakening its stature in Latin America and undermining its foreign policy position. It greatly increased Castro’s already strong mistrust of the Americans and drove Cuba even more firmly into the embrace of the Soviets; effectively the opposite of its intended outcome. Increased wariness of the USA and the greater amenability of Cuba to the Soviets arguably contributed to Castro’s acceptance of a Soviet proposal for nuclear missiles to be based there, to help ‘guarantee’ Cuba’s security. This precipitated the crisis of October 1962.

    http://www.bookrags.com/research/bay...asion-sjpc-01/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_...gs_of_invasion

    Following the Cuban revolution of 1959, relations between Cuba and the USA deteriorated sharply. In March 1960, the Eisenhower administration ordered the CIA to equip, train and lead small, elite groups of Cuban exiles for proposed covert operation in Cuba. The aim was to help encourage a popular uprising, bringing about the fall of Castro’s government and replacing it with one more favourably disposed to the USA; but to do it in such a way as to avoid any appearance of US intervention. By March 1961, the Americans had facilitated the creation of the Cuban Revolutionary Council, chaired by Jose Cardona, former Prime Minister of Cuba. Cardona was intended to become the leader of the new post-invasion Cuban government. Anti-Castro Cuban exiles were being recruited and trained for what would become an invasion force, the CIA having steadily up-sized the original concept to a larger scale operation.

    The invasion took place during the early months of the Kennedy administration, the force of about 1,400 Cuban exiles, which was given a small amount of air support, landing at the Bay of Pigs in the early hours of April 17. However, a force of this size was far too large to engage in effective covert operations, yet still too small to be a realistic threat to Cuba’s armed forces without very substantial (and therefore, obvious) direct US support. Of even greater significance was the fact that the popular uprising that the invasion was supposed to inspire simply did not occur. After three days of fighting, it had just about run out of ammunition and supplies and had been effectively beaten. The insurgents then attempted to evade capture but most of them were rounded up, with just a handful escaping to US ships. 1,189 had been taken prisoner and 114 had been killed in the fighting.

    Cuban security forces had been alerted to the possibility of this attack by a number of indicators, ranging from ‘loose lips’ among some of the exiles during their training, to warnings from KGB agents; but even more obvious were the stories of supposedly ‘covert’ training operations in Miami and Guatemala, that appeared in American newspapers. Therefore, the official cover story that it was a ‘spontaneous’ insurrection led by defecting Cuban forces was easily discredited.
    73
    Gallipoli Campaign 1915-1916
    69.86%
    51
    Bay of Pigs 1961
    30.14%
    22
    Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

    Prayers.

    BoRG

    http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

  • #2
    Any campaign run by the Brits have gotta be a bigger blunder than something "involving" Americans!
    Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

    Prayers.

    BoRG

    http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

    Comment


    • #3
      The Bay of Pigs undermined American prestige and emboldened Communist leaders which made them take more aggressive positions around the world. It also caused Kennedy to try to rebuild an image of strength. Both of these factors led to the Vietnam war. The results of the Vietnam war sacrifice are inconclusive and subject to a lot of debate.

      However, nothing good seems to have come from Galipoli except the respect in disaster it garnered for the ANZAC forces.

      It seems to be an easy choice to me. Galipoli.

      Comment


      • #4
        Think I gotta go with Galipoli it was a much longer and painful blunder.

        Comment


        • #5
          Bay of Pigs was over in a matter of days.

          Galipoli dragged on and on with little hope for a positive outcome. That also makes it a bigger Blunder.
          "Ask not what your country can do for you"

          Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

          you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

          Comment


          • #6
            Gallipoli was a military blunder, the other was a political blunder... So let's go with the military choice!
            A ME LE GUARDIE
            "Di noi tremò la nostra vecchia gloria. Tre secoli di fede e una vittoria". Gabriele D'Annunzio

            Comment


            • #7
              As Khryses posted earlier on in the tourney:

              "Randomly assaulting an only-peripherally-involved nation by sea, up a cliff at the end of a long supply line in a bid to seize a bottle-necked peninsula in order to sail a fleet through said nation's capital, then withdrawing when they're finally on the verge of breaking through?

              Why would you ever think that? "


              Gallipoli for me
              Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily.- Napoleon

              It is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.- Herman Melville

              Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

              BORG

              Comment


              • #8
                Gallipoli:
                as bold plan to knock an Empire out of the war: 10 points
                for timid execution of this bold plan: 3 points
                BoRG

                You may not be interested in War, but War is interested in You - Leon Trotski, June 1919.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by MajorSennef View Post
                  Gallipoli:
                  as bold plan to knock an Empire out of the war: 10 points
                  for timid execution of this bold plan: 3 points
                  Are those the votes from the Dutch jury?
                  Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily.- Napoleon

                  It is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.- Herman Melville

                  Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

                  BORG

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A close one for me but Gallipoli gets the vote. The duration of the blunder is what clinched it. Bay Of Pigs was complete disaster but didn't even last a week while Gallipoli dragged on for 8 months!
                    Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by craven View Post
                      Think I gotta go with Galipoli it was a much longer and painful blunder.


                      Gallipoli was a prolonged disaster that cost tens of thousands of lives. The Bay of Pigs was an embarrassment for the United States that cost several hundred Cuban lives.

                      Gallipoli has to be the winner here.
                      God Save The Republic.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ok, ok...Gallipoli it is. It generated a pretty good movie by the same name and a Bogle song (The Band Played 'Waltzing Matilda') that's an anthem for the peacebird set.
                        ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
                        IN MARE IN COELO

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                        • #13
                          Gallipoli has to get it. What were they thinking? No planning, recon, maps and then you put an old bloke in charge who has never commanded troops in the field. Just to make things worse every time it looked like going right everyone sat around waiting for orders that never came or contradicted the reality of the situation.

                          Great idea with shocking execution.
                          Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

                          That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Bay of Pigs gets more startled respect from me than I'd expected - hadn't realized the full depth of the blunder there, and I'm glad it got through the first tier.

                            But up against Gallipolli?

                            Strat kindly reposted my thoughts on the subject.

                            And Rojik, I couldn't agree more.

                            What were they thinking?!?

                            Lest we forget
                            Captain Khryses, Silver Star Omnilift Wing

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I may ride Gallipoli all the way to the end.
                              History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon. Napoleon Bonaparte
                              _________
                              BoRG
                              __________
                              "I am Arthur, King of the Britons!"

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