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Greatest Blunder - Siege of Breda vs Siege of Vienna (Round 1)

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  • Greatest Blunder - Siege of Breda vs Siege of Vienna (Round 1)

    Siege of Breda 1590



    Why?
    A Dutch “Trojan horse ruse” succeeds. The Spanish got too comfortable and were surprised by a tiny force which they could’ve beaten if they hadn’t run away…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Breda_(1590)

    The Siege of Breda was an extremely short battle of the Eighty Years' War during which a Dutch army led by Maurice of Nassau captured the heavily protected city of Breda by a clever tactic reminiscent of the Trojan horse. The Dutch commander was informed that a ship carrying peat to the city was never checked by the Spanish soldiers. Together with the ship's captain he thought of a plan which involved 70 Dutch soldiers hiding in the peat. The plan worked and the city, garrisoned with about a 800 Spanish, was taken with an absolute minimum of casualties on the Dutch side.


    Siege of Vienna 1683



    Why?
    It was a great but little motivated army the Ottomans had. Many, such as the Crimean Tartars and the Wallachians and Moldavian allies had no interest to fight with the Ottomans. The Ottoman army lacked spirit and was slow – therefore they were easily repulsed!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vienna

    The Battle of Vienna took place on the 11 and 12 of September 1683 after Vienna had been besieged by the Ottoman Empire for two months. It was a battle of The Holy League versus the Ottoman Empire and fiefdoms of the Ottoman Empire near the Kahlen Berg mountain in Vienna. The battle marked the beginning of the political hegemony of the Habsburg dynasty in Central Europe. The Viennese army was led by Ernst Rüdiger Graf von Starhemberg subordinate of Leopold I Habsburg, Holy Roman Emperor.
    The large-scale battle was won by Polish, Austrian and German forces commanded by King of Poland John III Sobieski versus the Ottoman Empire army and the Ottoman fiefdoms armies commanded by Grand Vizier Merzifonlu Kara Mustafa Pasha
    73
    Siege of Breda 1590
    50.68%
    37
    Siege of Vienna 1683
    49.32%
    36
    Last edited by Salinator; 16 May 10, 21:10.
    Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

    Prayers.

    BoRG

    http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

  • #2
    Vienna! I like "croissants"...
    A ME LE GUARDIE
    "Di noi tremò la nostra vecchia gloria. Tre secoli di fede e una vittoria". Gabriele D'Annunzio

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    • #3
      The way Breda was relieved was daring, creative and so simple...and the Spanish panicked so quickly it's just plain laughable !!!

      Breda get's my vote...it's beautiful
      Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily.- Napoleon

      It is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.- Herman Melville

      Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

      BORG

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      • #4
        Vienna for me.
        Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

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        • #5
          Breda might do well as a commando raid but no comparison with Kings Johns saving Vienna. How can I vote against another King John
          "Ask not what your country can do for you"

          Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

          you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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          • #6
            Vienna was my choice, too. Nothing like those Catholics when they get their blood up....
            ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
            IN MARE IN COELO

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            • #7
              Any battle that has the losing commander strangled by his own side gets my vote.
              Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

              That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

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              • #8
                The Turks could have taken the city easily. High losses,yes, but could have overwhelm them in days. What morons. Go Austrians and Poles !
                http://www.historynotes.info/wp-cont...of-Austria.jpg

                Archduke Charles!

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                • #9
                  Vienna for me. But only just.

                  I think neither of these battles is an exceptional blunder. An argument could be made for the brilliance of the victors more than the stupidity of the losers.
                  History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon. Napoleon Bonaparte
                  _________
                  BoRG
                  __________
                  "I am Arthur, King of the Britons!"

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Torien View Post
                    Vienna for me. But only just.

                    I think neither of these battles is an exceptional blunder. An argument could be made for the brilliance of the victors more than the stupidity of the losers.
                    How can you not consider the Spanish refraining from checking anything that comes into the city as NOT a blunder?
                    How can you not consider the Spanish garrison of 800 running away from 70 Dutchmen as NOT a blunder?

                    Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily.- Napoleon

                    It is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.- Herman Melville

                    Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

                    BORG

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Stratego View Post
                      How can you not consider the Spanish refraining from checking anything that comes into the city as NOT a blunder?
                      How can you not consider the Spanish garrison of 800 running away from 70 Dutchmen as NOT a blunder?

                      It was peat, for Pete's sake!
                      And I would run from 70 Dutchmen. Wouldn't you?
                      History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon. Napoleon Bonaparte
                      _________
                      BoRG
                      __________
                      "I am Arthur, King of the Britons!"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Stratego View Post
                        How can you not consider the Spanish refraining from checking anything that comes into the city as NOT a blunder?
                        How can you not consider the Spanish garrison of 800 running away from 70 Dutchmen as NOT a blunder?

                        I'll give you the first one, but if you're the besieged Spanish garrison and suddenly you have a whole bunch of psyched up Dutchmen inside your fortifications you've every reason to believe that the rest will be poring in through the (non existant but you don't know that) breach.

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                        • #13
                          Vienna. It was the high-water mark of the Ottomans. From there on it was all down hill for them.
                          It wasn't just one blunder, it was a series of them that cost the Turks a battle that should have gone all their way.

                          Breda? A nice raid, but hardly a blunder on the scale of one that saved the destiny of a continent.

                          I think this victory should be celebrated all over, on Sept. 12.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Torien View Post
                            Vienna for me. But only just.

                            I think neither of these battles is an exceptional blunder. An argument could be made for the brilliance of the victors more than the stupidity of the losers.
                            Same here.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Torien View Post
                              It was peat, for Pete's sake!
                              And I would run from 70 Dutchmen. Wouldn't you?
                              I'm regularly in a group of 70 Dutchmen, but never considered running

                              BTW I have difficulty establishing the extent of blundering between the two of them as well.
                              Never thought of Breda as a Spanish blunder, more as a cunning and daring exploit by the Dutch .
                              As for Vienna, not so much the siege; but arguably the way the Turks prepared for and conducted the battle left a lot to be desired. That could perhaps be considered a blunder.
                              Didn't vote (yet)
                              BoRG

                              You may not be interested in War, but War is interested in You - Leon Trotski, June 1919.

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