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Greatest Blunder - U.S. Invasion of Canada vs Austro-Prussian War (Round 1)

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  • Greatest Blunder - U.S. Invasion of Canada vs Austro-Prussian War (Round 1)

    U.S. invasion of Canada 1812-1813



    Why?
    Although confident from their last victory against the British during their struggle for independence, the US was not ready for an offensive war against the British in 1812. They thought that Canada would be easily overrun and started an offensive although not fully prepared.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_...Canada.2C_1812

    The War of 1812 was a war fought between the United States of America and the British Empire – particularly the United Kingdom and the provinces of British North America, the antecedent of Canada. It lasted from 1812 to 1815. It was fought chiefly on the Atlantic Ocean and on the land, coasts and waterways of North America. To America's leaders in 1812, an invasion of Canada seemed to be "a mere matter of marching," as Thomas Jefferson confidently predicted. How could a nation of 8 million fail to subdue a struggling colony of 300,000? Yet, when the campaign of 1812 ended, the only Americans left on Canadian soil were prisoners of war. Three American armies had been forced to surrender, and the British were in control of all of Michigan Territory and much of Indiana and Ohio.


    The Austro-Prussian War 1866



    Why?
    Austria goes from being the predominant power in the Germanic states to a lesser state through a series of bungled & mismanaged battles against their Northern neighbor Prussia.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austro-Prussian_War
    http://history-world.org/AUSTROPR.htm

    From the inside flap of Geoffrey Wawro’s book, “The Austro-Prussian War: Austria’s War with Prussia and Italy in 1866”:
    In 1866, the mighty Austrian Empire was attacked by the armies of Prussia & Italy. The Prussians first overran Austria’s German allies-Hanover, Hessia, Bavaria, and Saxony-and then thrust into the Hapsburg province of Bohemia. In a sequence of well-executed flanking attacks, the Prussians drove the Austrians from good defensive positions at Trautenau, Vysokov, Skalice, Munchengratz, and Jicin, and forced them back to the Elbe River fortress at Koniggratz. While the Prussians slowly encircled Austria’s North Army, the Italians attempted the same maneuver against Austria’s South Army in Venetia, but-in a humiliating, disastrous battle-were routed at Custoza. The Austro-Prussian War culminated at Koniggratz on July 3, 1866. There the Prussians hit the Austrians in front and flank, and nearly annihilated them, driving the North Army and its hapless commandant-General Ludwig Benedek, a pre-war celebrity accounted the best general in Europe-back to Vienna in a shattered, demoralized state.
    Austria’s infantry were equipped with muzzle-loading, single-shot rifle-muskets against the Prussian’s Dreyse Needle Gun-a bolt action breechloader. This blunder of pitting a muzzle loader vs. a breechloader saw a 5-1 casualty ration between the two armies. Prussia managed to not use either its artillery or its cavalry in a decent manner-something that the Austrians may have taken advantage of if their strategy & tactics had been better. The biggest blunder of the war was Benedek putting his army in front of Elbe river rather than behind it. The Prussians almost blundered at Koniggratz by launching their assaults before their Second Army was in range of Austria’s North army, but despite his subordinates’ attempts to save the battle, Benedek did nothing until it was too late.
    75
    U.S. Invasion of Canada 1812-1813
    44.00%
    33
    Austro-Prussian War 1866
    56.00%
    42
    Last edited by Stratego; 16 May 10, 05:38.
    Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily.- Napoleon

    It is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.- Herman Melville

    Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

    BORG

  • #2
    Hmmm..........

    Canada did not exist, so it was a war against US and Britain.

    OTOH, it was a struggle for German dominance between Austria and Prussia......
    Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

    Prayers.

    BoRG

    http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Salinator View Post
      Hmmm..........

      Canada did not exist, so it was a war against US and Britain.

      OTOH, it was a struggle for German dominance between Austria and Prussia......

      He said and invasion of Canada not a war with Canada and Canada did exist just not as a nation.





      The name Canada was first used by Jacques Cartier in 1535
      "Ask not what your country can do for you"

      Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

      you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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      • #4
        Austria and it's allies outnumbered the Prussians. It should've been at least a draw. Instead it was a lopsided win for the Prussians. A far bigger blunder than the US invading Canada. (again)
        Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
          The name Canada was first used by Jacques Cartier in 1535
          Yes, for his home made sandwich !!!
          Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily.- Napoleon

          It is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.- Herman Melville

          Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

          BORG

          Comment


          • #6
            U.S. vs Canada(Gr. Britain) got my vote. I flipped a coin.
            ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
            IN MARE IN COELO

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            • #7
              Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
              Austria and it's allies outnumbered the Prussians. It should've been at least a draw. Instead it was a lopsided win for the Prussians. A far bigger blunder than the US invading Canada. (again)
              But where exactly was the blunder? The Prussians wanted a war and came out victorious. No blunder here for the Austrians other than to be badly led with inferior equipment.
              The War of 1812, however, was a blunder. The American expansionists instigated it and were handed their ass on a platter, almost costing the young Republic the states of Michigan and Maine.

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              • #8
                Strategic Blunder? War of 1812, certainly - the Austrian war made sense, it just didn't work because of a series of tactical blunders in the field.

                Tactical Blunder? Austro-Prussian War, primarily due to the sheer number of tactical blunders that cost Austria her preeminence in Germany.

                Eventually voted for the War of 1812 in anticipation of the look on the faces of certain Peninsular players when a certain event is triggered...
                Captain Khryses, Silver Star Omnilift Wing

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by skoblin View Post
                  But where exactly was the blunder? The Prussians wanted a war and came out victorious. No blunder here for the Austrians other than to be badly led with inferior equipment.
                  The War of 1812, however, was a blunder. The American expansionists instigated it and were handed their ass on a platter, almost costing the young Republic the states of Michigan and Maine.
                  The blunder here was not the War of 1812 in the matchup but just the US invasion of Canada. The blunder of the Austrians was in thinking that they still mattered to the North Germans and then it was one blunder after another. The last being that Benedek committed the cardinal sin of encamping his army with a river at his back instead of front. Even an armchair general such as myself, wouldn't committ so egregious a blunder.
                  Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

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                  • #10
                    The Invasion of Canada it must be !
                    The US was not ready militarily and logistically for the war when they decided to invade Canada. With the British far away and with Canada thinly populated it should'eve indeed been easy to march into Canada...however, it proved harder than initially expected. They underestimated the British and overestimated their own possibilities.

                    Austria was lagging behind militarily and economically while Prussia was superior in troopnumbers, wealth, transport and military discipline and weapons. Prussia also had the most allies, including Italy.
                    That the Prussians would win this war was almost a foregone conclusion and let's admit, the Austrians and their allies did succeed in gaining SOME victories.



                    Greets,
                    Stratego
                    Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily.- Napoleon

                    It is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.- Herman Melville

                    Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

                    BORG

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
                      The blunder here was not the War of 1812 in the matchup but just the US invasion of Canada. The blunder of the Austrians was in thinking that they still mattered to the North Germans and then it was one blunder after another. The last being that Benedek committed the cardinal sin of encamping his army with a river at his back instead of front. Even an armchair general such as myself, wouldn't committ so egregious a blunder.
                      Good points all around. I should just let you do all my thinking for me, Bob.
                      History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon. Napoleon Bonaparte
                      _________
                      BoRG
                      __________
                      "I am Arthur, King of the Britons!"

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Stratego View Post
                        The Invasion of Canada it must be !
                        The US was not ready militarily and logistically for the war when they decided to invade Canada. With the British far away and with Canada thinly populated it should'eve indeed been easy to march into Canada...however, it proved harder than initially expected. They underestimated the British and overestimated their own possibilities.


                        Greets,
                        Stratego
                        That's why I voted for The Invasion of Canada. The Americans got too cocky and thought it would be a walkover.
                        "War is sorrowful, but there is one thing infinitely more horrible than the worst horrors of war, and that is the feeling that nothing is worth fighting for..."
                        -- Harper's Weekly, December 31, 1864

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                        • #13
                          Canada got a lot of help from Tecumseh and the Indians, not that many redcoats there. The USA couldn't have expected that. The Austrians should have known something about the Prussian military machine from the Holstein war, so 1866 for me.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Torien View Post
                            Good points all around. I should just let you do all my thinking for me, Bob.
                            That could get you into serious trouble.
                            Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by suntzu View Post
                              Canada got a lot of help from Tecumseh and the Indians, not that many redcoats there. The USA couldn't have expected that. The Austrians should have known something about the Prussian military machine from the Holstein war, so 1866 for me.
                              The Americans did defeat Tecumseh though.

                              http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/10/5?catId=6

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