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Greatest/Best Tank - Transportability & Deployment

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  • Greatest/Best Tank - Transportability & Deployment

    39
    Matilda II
    0.00%
    0
    Crusader
    0.00%
    0
    Churchill
    0.00%
    0
    Valentine
    2.56%
    1
    Cromwell
    2.56%
    1
    Somua S-35
    0.00%
    0
    Char B-1 bis
    0.00%
    0
    PzKpfw 38(t)
    5.13%
    2
    PzKpfw III
    12.82%
    5
    PzKpfw IV (short & long guns combined)
    2.56%
    1
    Tiger I
    0.00%
    0
    Panther
    0.00%
    0
    Tiger II
    2.56%
    1
    M 13-40/14-41/15-42
    0.00%
    0
    Type 97 Chi-Ha
    0.00%
    0
    BT-5/7
    2.56%
    1
    T-34 (76 and 85 combined)
    10.26%
    4
    KV-1
    0.00%
    0
    IS-2
    0.00%
    0
    M3 Medium
    0.00%
    0
    M4 Medium (all versions combined)
    58.97%
    23

    The poll is expired.

    Tips for Participants

    If you have not already done so, for an outline explanation of what is going on and how the polling and scoring processes will work please consult the Master Thread (Mega-Poll - Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 - Master Thread) and read the first three posts I have placed there, before beginning your participation in the 12 polls:

    http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...d.php?t=122093

    After you've read those first three posts (or if you've already done so), you are ready to start on the 12 poll threads.

    When you enter the poll threads, don't forget to read the Criteria Information (post #2 on each thread) for information on what's covered by that particular criterion; and precise details you'll need to register your score for all 21 of the tanks.
    Last edited by panther3485; 23 Apr 12, 09:33.

  • DogDodger
    replied
    Definitely.

    Leave a comment:


  • panther3485
    replied
    Originally posted by DogDodger View Post
    Ah, I misunderstood the phrase, then. Apologies.
    No apology necessary, Chris. My fault entirely, for not being precise enough with my wording ...

    ... but then, I had to put an awful lot of words together over this whole thing, so maybe I could cut myself just a little bit of slack here.

    Leave a comment:


  • DogDodger
    replied
    Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
    You mean, it's of greater value when it gets to its destination? I didn't intend for requirements of the user to include that; but my wording was far from watertight and others may have done so.
    Ah, I misunderstood the phrase, then. Apologies.

    Leave a comment:


  • panther3485
    replied
    Originally posted by broderickwells View Post
    If we're talking loading onto a ship, then the M4 is probably the winner. If we're talking loading on a train, then it becomes a turkey shoot, as so many of the smaller designs were just perfect for that.
    ... and that's where the needs of the user were meant to come into play, when I was working on this criterion. What means of transport and deployment did they need to use; and to what extent did the design and characteristics of the tank help to facilitate those transport needs. To put it another way, how readily 'transportable' was the tank using the range of transport means the user was likely to employ, and over the distances and variety of theatres/scenarios this needed to occur? If a tank never needed to be moved by ship, then shipping was not to be a consideration.

    How good for battle the tank actually was compared to other tanks, when it got where it was going, was not meant to figure in the reckoning. At least, that was my intention but I didn't word it clearly enough.

    Leave a comment:


  • broderickwells
    replied
    If we're talking loading onto a ship, then the M4 is probably the winner. If we're talking loading on a train, then it becomes a turkey shoot, as so many of the smaller designs were just perfect for that.

    Leave a comment:


  • panther3485
    replied
    Originally posted by DogDodger View Post
    It might not be easier to transport, but if the requirements of the user are taken into account (as suggested in the OP), the T-34 becomes more of a transportation bargain perhaps?
    You mean, it's of greater value when it gets to its destination? I didn't intend for requirements of the user to include that; but my wording was far from watertight and others may have done so.

    Leave a comment:


  • DogDodger
    replied
    It might not be easier to transport, but if the requirements of the user are taken into account (as suggested in the OP), the T-34 becomes more of a transportation bargain perhaps?

    Leave a comment:


  • panther3485
    replied
    Final Scores for 'Transportability & Deployment'

    Final Scores for the 'Transportability & Deployment' poll:

    1st - M4 Medium (19.1)
    2nd - PzKpfw III (17.1)
    3rd - PzKpfw 38(t) (16.1)
    4th - PzKpfw IV (16)
    5th - M3 Medium (15.9)
    6th - T-34 (15.7)
    7th - BT-5/7 (15.5)
    8th - Valentine (15.1)
    9th - M 13-40 (14.8)
    10th - Somua S-35 (13.8)
    11th - Type 97 (13.7)
    12th - Cromwell (12.5)
    Equal 13th - Matilda II and Crusader (12)
    14th - Churchill (8.1)
    Equal 15th - KV-1 and IS-2
    Equal 16th - Char B-1 bis and Panther
    17th - Tiger I (2.1)
    18th - Tiger II (0.2)


    Comments:

    My first thoughts here are that the top 7 and bottom 2 places are correctly filled, especially the bottom 2. But then I ask myself, for example, why would a T-34 be easier for the Soviets to transport and deploy than a BT-7 that weighs half as much? And the more I look, the more questions I ask myself. But then, this poll was going to be one of the more challenging ones for all of us, I reckon.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by panther3485; 12 Aug 12, 08:40.

    Leave a comment:


  • panther3485
    replied
    Originally posted by Dashy View Post
    Sherman No.1 here

    Valentine, Bt-7 and Pnzr III at Excellent

    the rest at good, except the CharB1, Tigers 1&2 and Panther.
    Thanks, Scott.

    I have interpreted and entered your preferences as follows:

    Excellent (18 points) Valentine, BT-5/7, PzKpfw III
    Good (12 points) Matilda II, Crusader, Churchill, Cromwell, Somua S-35, PzKpfw 38(t), PzKpfw IV, M 13-40, Type 97, T-34, KV-1, IS-2, M3 Medium
    OK (6 points) Char B-1 bis, Panther
    Poor (0 points) Tiger I, Tiger II

    Please confirm if this is OK, or advise me of any adjustments you want made. Alternatively, if you prefer and there are any tanks you are not too sure where to place, we can always default to the 'average' method for those particular vehicles.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dashy
    replied
    Sherman No.1 here

    Valentine, Bt-7 and Pnzr III at Excellent

    the rest at good, except the CharB1, Tigers 1&2 and Panther.

    Leave a comment:


  • panther3485
    replied
    Originally posted by DogDodger View Post
    OK, so factoring in the needs and capabilities of the users, I think the M4 would get top marks here. It made it from Detroit to Okinawa, and conversely from Detroit to Manchuria via the Soviet Union. The US shipped all of its combat tanks across the oceans, and was able to send 26,600 medium tanks (mostly M4s) to its Allies. That's a lot of transportability. Light and small tanks like the Type 97, Pz.Kpfw.38(t), Crusader, and the BT tanks would theoretically be easier to transport, if the needs of the users are taken into account I'm not sure these light tanks hold up as the absolute best.

    Excellent: M3, Pz.Kpfw.38(t), BT, Valentine, Cromwell, Pz.Kpfw.III, Pz.Kpfw.IV, T-34
    Good: Crusader (small and light, but was almost a detriment once it arrived), Matilda II (small but relatively heavy for its time), SOMUA, M13/40 (small and light in absolute terms, but its weight was relatively magnified by Italy's infrastructure), Type 97 (see M13/40)
    OK: Churchill (had to do some disassembly for rail transport), Char B, Panther, KV, IS-2
    Poor: Tiger I, Tiger II
    Thanks Chris. Some good reasoning there. All added to spreadsheet now.

    Leave a comment:


  • DogDodger
    replied
    OK, so factoring in the needs and capabilities of the users, I think the M4 would get top marks here. It made it from Detroit to Okinawa, and conversely from Detroit to Manchuria via the Soviet Union. The US shipped all of its combat tanks across the oceans, and was able to send 26,600 medium tanks (mostly M4s) to its Allies. That's a lot of transportability. Light and small tanks like the Type 97, Pz.Kpfw.38(t), Crusader, and the BT tanks would theoretically be easier to transport, if the needs of the users are taken into account I'm not sure these light tanks hold up as the absolute best.

    Excellent: M3, Pz.Kpfw.38(t), BT, Valentine, Cromwell, Pz.Kpfw.III, Pz.Kpfw.IV, T-34
    Good: Crusader (small and light, but was almost a detriment once it arrived), Matilda II (small but relatively heavy for its time), SOMUA, M13/40 (small and light in absolute terms, but its weight was relatively magnified by Italy's infrastructure), Type 97 (see M13/40)
    OK: Churchill (had to do some disassembly for rail transport), Char B, Panther, KV, IS-2
    Poor: Tiger I, Tiger II

    Leave a comment:


  • tacticallysound
    replied
    I picked the T34 instead of the Sherman, because the Sherman had to be built in America and then transported across the Atlantic to various locations.
    I hear stories of Russian factories where as soon as a T34 was finished, the crew will takeover and take it straight to the battlefield.

    I don't know if the above statement is true, but the Soviets can transport the light t34s via railway stations.

    Leave a comment:


  • panther3485
    replied
    Originally posted by dutched View Post
    "Yes Paul the first is a typo a remnant of the Carro Armato type series."
    No problem. I've already put the M4 down for 12 points ('Good' bracket) on the spreadsheet against your name but I just wanted to be sure.


    Originally posted by dutched View Post
    "Will you be posting a general conclusion to the main thread?
    Or shall we be able to warm ourselves in the private knowledge that at the end of it all we know we were right (and the others wrong).

    Cheers,

    Ed.
    Yep. My intention is to do a very short summary for each of the polls at the end of their respective threads; and an overall conclusion at the end of the master thread.

    Leave a comment:

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