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Greatest/Best Tank - Transportability & Deployment

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  • Greatest/Best Tank - Transportability & Deployment

    Tips for Participants

    If you have not already done so, for an outline explanation of what is going on and how the polling and scoring processes will work please consult the Master Thread (Mega-Poll - Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 - Master Thread) and read the first three posts I have placed there, before beginning your participation in the 12 polls:

    http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...d.php?t=122093

    After you've read those first three posts (or if you've already done so), you are ready to start on the 12 poll threads.

    When you enter the poll threads, don't forget to read the Criteria Information (post #2 on each thread) for information on what's covered by that particular criterion; and precise details you'll need to register your score for all 21 of the tanks.
    39
    Matilda II
    0.00%
    0
    Crusader
    0.00%
    0
    Churchill
    0.00%
    0
    Valentine
    2.56%
    1
    Cromwell
    2.56%
    1
    Somua S-35
    0.00%
    0
    Char B-1 bis
    0.00%
    0
    PzKpfw 38(t)
    5.13%
    2
    PzKpfw III
    12.82%
    5
    PzKpfw IV (short & long guns combined)
    2.56%
    1
    Tiger I
    0.00%
    0
    Panther
    0.00%
    0
    Tiger II
    2.56%
    1
    M 13-40/14-41/15-42
    0.00%
    0
    Type 97 Chi-Ha
    0.00%
    0
    BT-5/7
    2.56%
    1
    T-34 (76 and 85 combined)
    10.26%
    4
    KV-1
    0.00%
    0
    IS-2
    0.00%
    0
    M3 Medium
    0.00%
    0
    M4 Medium (all versions combined)
    58.97%
    23

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by panther3485; 23 Apr 12, 09:33.
    "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

  • #2
    Criteria Information



    Welcome to the Transportability Poll; one of twelve polls where you will have the opportunity to help decide the greatest/best tank of WW2, as determined by our ACG membership.

    You are also invited to discuss/debate the transportability/deployment factors of all 21 tanks in this particular thread.


    11. Transportability & deployment (max 20 points)

    This criterion addresses only those situations where tanks are being transported rather than travelling under their own power. Therefore, it is mostly concerned with strategic deployment/mobility.
    However, it can to a certain extent include the operational context; as when tanks are transported by rail from one part of a front to another for example.
    Some tanks are more difficult to ship/transport and deploy than others but of course the requirements and situation of the user nation/s also come into the picture and you should weigh these into your assessments also.


    All Participants

    If you have not already done so, please vote for the one tank that you believe measures up best against this criterion.

    Level 2 Participants Only

    Brackets

    Please rate the remaining 20 tanks by placing each of them into one of the brackets below:

    In your opinion, and in consideration of the needs of the side that used it, was the overall transportability/deployment factor of the tank ...

    Excellent (18)
    Good (12)
    OK (6)
    Poor (0)
    Last edited by panther3485; 27 Apr 12, 11:16.
    "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

    Comment


    • #3
      Personally, the Sherman is top dog here imo. Otherwise, I've simply gone by weight in most cases.

      Excellent (18) - M3 Medium, Valentine, PzKpfw 38(t), M 13-40/14-41/15-42, Type 97 Chi-Ha, BT-5/7

      Good (12) - Matilda 2, Pz III and IV, Cromwell, Crusader, T-34, Somua S-35

      OK (6) - IS-2, Churchill, Char B-1 bis, KV-1, IS-2


      Poor (0) - Tiger 1 and 2, Panther.
      How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
      Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

      Comment


      • #4
        Nick nailed it again there is really no need to do anything else that just quote his post, but I shall do one change. I would move panzer II and IV to excellent as I think that German railway carts are build so that maximum number of Panzers would fit. Same goes to Soviets. So same as Nick, but Panzer III,IV and T-34 to Excellent.
        From Devastation - Knights Twilight Warhammer 40,000 Quest
        Rear Admiral Sander Van der Zee, Commander of Dutch Far East Theatre
        "There is never enough firepower!"

        Comment


        • #5
          Benchmark: M4 Medium

          Excellent: M3 Medium, T-34, PzKpfw III, PzKpfw IV, Valentine, Crusader, Somua S-35, PzKpfw 38(t), M 13-40/14-41/15-42, Type 97 Chi-Ha, BT-5/7

          Good: Cromwell, Matilda II,

          OK: Churchill, Char B-1 bis, KV-1, IS-2, Panther,

          Poor: Tiger II, Tiger I

          The M4 medium seems to have been designed around its transport requirements.

          That bunch of excellents: they're all quite light and don't require an specialised equipment for loading or getting to the front. As the tanks get heavier, then there are a few problems.

          The two Tigers needed to have wheels removed, transport tracks fitted - in short, a lot of faffing about.

          Comment


          • #6
            Tops goes to the panzerIII the size is perfect for ships,planes trains. The fact that the Germans didn't have to ship mass amounts isn't the tanks fault.
            excellent would have to go to
            M4 M3 pvIV t/34 and 38T has to go hear as well IMO,to high and or to heavy for benckmark on the others I don't go by manufactured numbers and shipped.
            good would have to be Crusader matilda cromwell churchill

            poor would be the rest

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by broderickwells View Post
              The M4 medium seems to have been designed around its transport requirements.
              +1 when I get the chance.

              Strategic and operational mobility is the Shermans real strength.
              The tankers that operated the M4 complained that it was numbers that defeated the Germans, not quality of their machines. The veterans may have been right up to a point, but the fact remains that the M4 was designed within the limits of US shipping, and was possibly the best tank under its own steam as well. That is one reason why the M4 helped the Allies more than any Axis machine helped their side.

              US tankers said they won through numbers and really big gonads. At least the specs on the M4 allowed for superior numbers, and this category should be a M4 winner imo.
              How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
              Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Brumbear View Post
                Tops goes to the panzerIII the size is perfect for ships,planes trains. The fact that the Germans didn't have to ship mass amounts isn't the tanks fault.
                excellent would have to go to
                M4 M3 pvIV t/34 and 38T has to go hear as well IMO,to high and or to heavy for benckmark on the others I don't go by manufactured numbers and shipped.
                good would have to be Crusader matilda cromwell churchill

                poor would be the rest
                Dave, you've got nothing in the OK (6 points) bracket; and you've dropped all of the following into the Poor (0 points) bracket:

                Valentine
                Somua S-35
                Char B-1 bis
                Tiger I
                Panther
                Tiger II
                M 13-40
                Type 97
                BT-5/7
                KV-1
                IS-2

                Are you sure this is what you really want? I've entered them as such for now but please let me know what you want changed/corrected.


                brod, Nick and Senorankka:

                Thanks for your input. All entered on spreadsheet.
                Last edited by panther3485; 30 Apr 12, 10:10.
                "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                Comment


                • #9
                  oops to many thanks I will revise


                  ok 6 points would be
                  Panther, Valantine , type 97,BT5
                  The big tanks have to get a 0 here sorry
                  and I am ashamed to say I don't even know what souma is to be honest I will look it up tonight.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Brumbear View Post
                    oops to many thanks I will revise


                    ok 6 points would be
                    Panther, Valantine , type 97,BT5
                    The big tanks have to get a 0 here sorry
                    and I am ashamed to say I don't even know what souma is to be honest I will look it up tonight.
                    No worries, Dave, I've made those changes. There's plenty of time for adjustments so if you want anything else changed later, please let me know and I can do that for you.

                    Also, no need to be ashamed for not being familiar with a particular type of tank. Not everyone lives and breathes these things, and I think most folks have other ways to spend their leisure time. I'm sure you're very far indeed from being the only one around here who isn't a total tank nut; and if you ever want to do it and you have the time, just a little bit of extra research can go a long way. Perhaps one of the spin-off benefits of these polls is that some members might have their curiosity aroused and be prompted to read up a bit more on the lesser-known tanks.

                    Thanks again for your participation.
                    Last edited by panther3485; 30 Apr 12, 10:13.
                    "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      11. Transportability & deployment (20) T-34

                      Excellent (18) Somua S35 PzKpfw III PzKpfe 38T M13-14 M4 Type 97

                      Good (12) BT 5/7 Cromwell Churchill M3 Valentine Matilda II PzKpfe IV

                      OK (6) IS-2 KV-1 Crusader Tiger I Panther

                      Poor (0) Tiger II Char B-1

                      “Attack with aggression, but always have a plan of retreat”

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by wellsfargo View Post
                        11. Transportability & deployment (20) T-34

                        Excellent (18) Somua S35 PzKpfw III PzKpfe 38T M13-14 M4 Type 97

                        Good (12) BT 5/7 Cromwell Churchill M3 Valentine Matilda II PzKpfe IV

                        OK (6) IS-2 KV-1 Crusader Tiger I Panther

                        Poor (0) Tiger II Char B-1

                        “Attack with aggression, but always have a plan of retreat”
                        Thanks Martin, scores recorded.
                        "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by broderickwells View Post

                          The two Tigers needed to have wheels removed, transport tracks fitted - in short, a lot of faffing about.

                          And couldn't fit through the european railway tunnels. IIRC the Tigers bound for Italy and Africa had to go round the alps.
                          "In the absence of orders...find something and kill it!" Lt. General Erwin Rommel, 1942

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Winner---PzIII


                            Excellent (18)M4 Sherman, S-35, Bt-7, PzIV, Type-97
                            Good (12)M-13/14, M3 Grant, T-34, Valentine, Churchill, 38t, Matilda II
                            OK (6)Cromwell, Crusader, IS-2, CharB1 bis, Panther, Tiger I, KV-1
                            Poor (0)Tiger II


                            I had a tough debate between the Sherman and the PzIII. Eventually I decided based on which one was intended to be good in this category and which one gained the ability by accident. When the Americans were designing tanks in the 30's they had this factor in mind. Any U.S. war would definitely be fought far from the factories making the tanks, so transportability was ever present in the design process. The Germans however, didn't know they would be shipping tanks over a thousand miles away to north africa. On road, rail, over sea and on and off ports. So the PzIII gets a slight edge over the Sherman, and if I could vote for both in the top slot I would.

                            We all know where the King Tiger belongs.
                            "In the absence of orders...find something and kill it!" Lt. General Erwin Rommel, 1942

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by smallvillekalel View Post
                              Winner---PzIII


                              Excellent (18)M4 Sherman, S-35, Bt-7, PzIV, Type-97
                              Good (12)M-13/14, M3 Grant, T-34, Valentine, Churchill, 38t, Matilda II
                              OK (6)Cromwell, Crusader, IS-2, CharB1 bis, Panther, Tiger I, KV-1
                              Poor (0)Tiger II


                              I had a tough debate between the Sherman and the PzIII. Eventually I decided based on which one was intended to be good in this category and which one gained the ability by accident. When the Americans were designing tanks in the 30's they had this factor in mind. Any U.S. war would definitely be fought far from the factories making the tanks, so transportability was ever present in the design process. The Germans however, didn't know they would be shipping tanks over a thousand miles away to north africa. On road, rail, over sea and on and off ports. So the PzIII gets a slight edge over the Sherman, and if I could vote for both in the top slot I would.

                              We all know where the King Tiger belongs.
                              Thanks David, done.
                              "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                              Comment

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