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Greatest/Best Tank - The 'Edge' Factor

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  • #46
    The Tiger I. It had the widest edge and for a very long time. It also had a remarkable psychological effect, to the extent that in Allied soldiers' reports, all German tanks (or even AFVs) encountered were Tigers (just as all guns were 88s).
    Michele

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    • #47
      Top pick in this category is Tiger I. I can't find much to compare with it.

      Very High: Panther, Matilda II, Tiger II, T34, KV1.

      High: Churchill, IS2, M4, M3, PzKpfw IV, PzKpfw III, Somua S-35, CharB.

      Moderate: PzKpfw 38(t), Crusader, Valentine, Cromwell.

      Low: Bt 5/7, Type 97, M13-40.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Michele View Post
        The Tiger I. It had the widest edge and for a very long time. It also had a remarkable psychological effect, to the extent that in Allied soldiers' reports, all German tanks (or even AFVs) encountered were Tigers (just as all guns were 88s).
        Thanks Michele. Your vote for Tiger I has been recorded.
        "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
        Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by llkinak View Post
          Top pick in this category is Tiger I. I can't find much to compare with it.

          Very High: Panther, Matilda II, Tiger II, T34, KV1.

          High: Churchill, IS2, M4, M3, PzKpfw IV, PzKpfw III, Somua S-35, CharB.

          Moderate: PzKpfw 38(t), Crusader, Valentine, Cromwell.

          Low: Bt 5/7, Type 97, M13-40.
          Thank you, Lance. All scores recorded.
          "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
          Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

          Comment


          • #50
            As the Tiger I seems to be on an unstoppable roll to victory, Iíve decided to cast a protest vote.

            In my case Iíve gone for the Matilda II, whilst it only held the edge in the European and North African theatres for a short time, it did so at a time when the enemy appeared to hold all the cards. I know the same can be said for the Tiger variants later in the war, but Iíll let heart rule head on this one.

            Very High: Panther, Tiger I, Tiger II, T34, KV1.

            High: Churchill, IS2, M4, M3, PzKpfw IV, PzKpfw III, Somua S-35, CharB.

            Moderate: PzKpfw 38(t), Crusader, Valentine, Cromwell.

            Low: Bt 5/7, Type 97, M13-40.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by 97th Foot View Post
              As the Tiger I seems to be on an unstoppable roll to victory, Iíve decided to cast a protest vote.

              In my case Iíve gone for the Matilda II, whilst it only held the edge in the European and North African theatres for a short time, it did so at a time when the enemy appeared to hold all the cards. I know the same can be said for the Tiger variants later in the war, but Iíll let heart rule head on this one.

              Very High: Panther, Tiger I, Tiger II, T34, KV1.

              High: Churchill, IS2, M4, M3, PzKpfw IV, PzKpfw III, Somua S-35, CharB.

              Moderate: PzKpfw 38(t), Crusader, Valentine, Cromwell.

              Low: Bt 5/7, Type 97, M13-40.
              Don't beat yourself up over this one, i actually think it's a good choice!
              "In the absence of orders...find something and kill it!" Lt. General Erwin Rommel, 1942

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              • #52
                Here again, I fall into line with the majority. Tiger I for the benchmark/champion tank under this criterion. The rest as follows:

                Very High - Matilda II, Char B-1 bis, Panther, Tiger II, T-34, KV-1
                High - Churchill, Somua S-35, PzKpfw IV, IS-2
                Moderate - Valentine, Cromwell, PzKpfw 38(t), PzKpfw III, Type 97, BT-5/7, M3 Medium, M4 Medium
                Low - Crusader, M 13-40/14-41/15-42

                "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by 97th Foot View Post
                  As the Tiger I seems to be on an unstoppable roll to victory, Iíve decided to cast a protest vote.

                  In my case Iíve gone for the Matilda II, whilst it only held the edge in the European and North African theatres for a short time, it did so at a time when the enemy appeared to hold all the cards. I know the same can be said for the Tiger variants later in the war, but Iíll let heart rule head on this one.

                  Very High: Panther, Tiger I, Tiger II, T34, KV1.

                  High: Churchill, IS2, M4, M3, PzKpfw IV, PzKpfw III, Somua S-35, CharB.

                  Moderate: PzKpfw 38(t), Crusader, Valentine, Cromwell.

                  Low: Bt 5/7, Type 97, M13-40.
                  I too voted for the Tiger, but not completely sure it was the right vote. Fpr example, the 741st independent tank battalion which landed at Omaha on D-Day can be said to be veteran by mid December 1944. During one 3 day period fighting against the 12th SS Panzer division at Rocherath, for which the unit received a Presidential citation, they claimed one SP gun, 2 armoured cars, 2 trucks, 2 half-tracks and c27 Tigers. That's not bad considering no Tigers were being used by that particular unit. What can be said is that this seasoned unit DID kill vastly more tanks than they lost, and by superior skill, but by late 44, the word Tiger is becoming more a 'catch-all' for every German tank, ie just like 'Panzer', and therefore nothing special in the Allied troops eyes after the initial clashes in Normandy imo.
                  How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
                  Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

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                  • #54
                    I voted for the Tiger I here. I have a tough time with this category as it seems to overlap a fair amount with others, as well as ask for measurement of difficult ideas that are tough to measure.

                    Very High- Tiger II, KV-1, IS-2, Panther

                    High- Churchill, Matilda, M4, T-34, PzIII, PzIV, Char B-1

                    Moderate- M3, Valentine, Cromwell, Somua, Pz 38T, Type 97, BT-5/7

                    Low- M 13-40, Crusader
                    John

                    Play La Marseillaise. Play it!

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by JBark View Post
                      I voted for the Tiger I here. I have a tough time with this category as it seems to overlap a fair amount with others, as well as ask for measurement of difficult ideas that are tough to measure.

                      Very High- Tiger II, KV-1, IS-2, Panther

                      High- Churchill, Matilda, M4, T-34, PzIII, PzIV, Char B-1

                      Moderate- M3, Valentine, Cromwell, Somua, Pz 38T, Type 97, BT-5/7

                      Low- M 13-40, Crusader
                      Thanks John, your scores are now all entered on the spreadsheet.

                      Yes, this particular subject is very difficult to quantify or measure.
                      "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                      Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        I agree with what Nick said earlier
                        My bench mark is the Tiger I.
                        Whether for the alleged Panzer Panik caused or as a propaganda moral booster.

                        The Tiger I cannot be ignored.

                        Very high: Churchill, Panther, Tiger II, T-34, KV-1, IS-2
                        High: Matilda, Char B-1 bis, Somua S-35, Pzkfw III and IV
                        Moderate: Valentine, Cromwell, PzKpfw 38(t), BT-5/7, M3 Medium, M4
                        Low: Crusader, M 13/40M14/41M15/42, Type 97


                        Ed.
                        The repetition of affirmations leads to belief. Once that belief becomes a deep conviction, you better wake up and look at the facts.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by dutched View Post
                          I agree with what Nick said earlier
                          My bench mark is the Tiger I.
                          Whether for the alleged Panzer Panik caused or as a propaganda moral booster.

                          The Tiger I cannot be ignored.

                          Very high: Churchill, Panther, Tiger II, T-34, KV-1, IS-2
                          High: Matilda, Char B-1 bis, Somua S-35, Pzkfw III and IV
                          Moderate: Valentine, Cromwell, PzKpfw 38(t), BT-5/7, M3 Medium, M4
                          Low: Crusader, M 13/40M14/41M15/42, Type 97


                          Ed.
                          Thanks Ed, your scores have now been entered.
                          "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                          Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
                            OK, all entered.

                            Just checking, Scott, but are you certain you want nothing to go into 'Moderate' (3 points)? I've entered strictly as you said but please don't hesitate to let me know if you change your mind about any of these.
                            Scott, upon reviewing your posted preferences the tanks you have nominated as being in the 'Very high' and 'High' brackets will of course remain there because you were very definite about them. However, given that you did not respond to my question regarding placing all the other tanks in the 'Low' bracket but none at all in 'Moderate', there remains in my mind a nagging uncertainty that you might have placed at least a few into the Moderate bracket if you had taken another look at it. Because of this uncertainty, I have decided to use the default 'average' scores for those tanks in this instance. I hope that is OK. If it isn't could you please let me know ASAP.

                            Regards,
                            panther3485
                            "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                            Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Final Scores for 'The Edge Factor'

                              Final Scores for 'The Edge Factor' poll:

                              1st - Tiger I (9.9)
                              Equal 2nd - Panther, Tiger II and KV-1 (8.5)
                              3rd - T-34 (8.3)
                              4th - Matilda II (7.6)
                              5th - Char B-1 bis (6.8)
                              6th - IS-2 (6.5)
                              7th - Churchill (5.8)
                              8th - PzKpfw IV (5.7)
                              9th - M4 Medium (4.7)
                              10th - Somua S-35 (4.5)
                              11th - PzKpfw III (4.1)
                              12th - M3 Medium (3)
                              Equal 13th - Valentine, Cromwell and BT-5/7 (2.5)
                              14th - PzKpfw 38(t) (2.2)
                              15th - Type 97 (2)
                              16th - Crusader (1.1)
                              17th - M 13-40 (0.1)


                              Comments:

                              This, surely, must have been one of the most predictable of the 12 outcomes. Hidden by the averaged scores is the fact that in this poll, The Tiger I got more than 3/4 of the primary vote, on its own. That's saying something about the reputation of the tank, I think. Whether it fully deserved that reputation may be debated but it certainly has more of it - in spades - than any other tank to appear in the conflict.

                              Over to you guys.
                              Last edited by panther3485; 12 Aug 12, 04:11.
                              "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                              Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

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                              • #60
                                I see the top, its the order of 3 through 9 I don't get.
                                John

                                Play La Marseillaise. Play it!

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