Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Greatest/Best Tank - The 'Edge' Factor

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Greatest/Best Tank - The 'Edge' Factor

    Tips for Participants

    If you have not already done so, for an outline explanation of what is going on and how the polling and scoring processes will work please consult the Master Thread (Mega-Poll - Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 - Master Thread) and read the first three posts I have placed there, before beginning your participation in the 12 polls:

    http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...d.php?t=122093

    After you've read those first three posts (or if you've already done so), you are ready to start on the 12 poll threads.

    When you enter the poll threads, don't forget to read the Criteria Information (post #2 on each thread) for information on what's covered by that particular criterion; and precise details you'll need to register your score for all 21 of the tanks.
    42
    Matilda II
    2.38%
    1
    Crusader
    0.00%
    0
    Churchill
    0.00%
    0
    Valentine
    0.00%
    0
    Cromwell
    0.00%
    0
    Somua S-35
    0.00%
    0
    Char B-1 bis
    0.00%
    0
    PzKpfw 38(t)
    0.00%
    0
    PzKpfw III
    0.00%
    0
    PzKpfw IV (short & long guns combined)
    0.00%
    0
    Tiger I
    78.57%
    33
    Panther
    0.00%
    0
    Tiger II
    0.00%
    0
    M 13-40/14-41/15-42
    2.38%
    1
    Type 97 Chi-Ha
    0.00%
    0
    BT-5/7
    0.00%
    0
    T-34 (76 and 85 combined)
    11.90%
    5
    KV-1
    2.38%
    1
    IS-2
    0.00%
    0
    M3 Medium
    0.00%
    0
    M4 Medium (all versions combined)
    2.38%
    1

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by panther3485; 23 Apr 12, 07:19.
    "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

  • #2
    Criteria Information


    Welcome to the 'Edge' Factor Poll; one of twelve polls where you will have the opportunity to help decide the greatest/best tank of WW2, as determined by our ACG membership.
    You are also invited to discuss/debate the 'edge' factor and psychological elements relating to all 21 tanks in this particular thread.


    6. The ‘edge’ factor and Psychological elements (max 10 points)

    For tank vs tank combat, competitiveness and viability against enemy tanks can be extremely important and a superiority in this area will often be enough give you a decisive edge; all other factors being equal.
    How much of an edge did this tank have over its armoured opposition on the battlefield and for how long was it able to maintain that edge; or at least, its competitiveness?

    As for the psychological/morale elements, these are notoriously hard to measure but we know they existed.
    Depending on the case in question, these might include:

    • Possible beneficial effects for own side's morale
    • Positives negative effects for enemy morale


    All Participants

    If you have not already done so, please vote for the one tank that you believe measures up best against this criterion.

    Level 2 Participants Only

    Brackets

    Please rate the remaining 20 tanks by placing each of them into one of the brackets below:

    In your opinion, for its time of first-line service, was the tank's ability to maintain a battlefield 'edge', together with its morale factor (positive for own side and/or negative for the enemy) ...

    Very high (9)
    High (6)
    Moderate (3)
    Low (0)
    Last edited by panther3485; 27 Apr 12, 11:15.
    "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

    Comment


    • #3
      This one is tricky as many tanks had an 'edge' even if just for a small time. Chronologically, I think those best tanks that had this edge would be Char B1-bis (40), Matilda 2 (40-1), T-34/KV-1 (41-42), PzIV (42), Sherman (42-3), Tiger 1 (42-45), Churchill (42-5), Panther (43-5) and Tiger 2. In the end I plumped for Tiger 1.

      Very high (9) - Matilda 2, Churchill, Panther, Tiger 2, T-34, KV-1

      High (6) - Char B-1 bis, Souma S-35, IS-2, PzIII and IV

      Moderate (3) - Valentine, Cromwell, PzKpfw 38(t), BT-5/7, M3 Medium, M4

      Low (0) - Crusader, M 13-40/14-41/15-42, Type 97 Chi-Ha
      How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
      Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

      Comment


      • #4
        The Benchmark: Tiger I

        Very High: Matilda II, Char B-1 bis, T-34 (76 and 85 combined), Panther, KV-1,

        High: IS-2, Tiger II, BT-5/7, Type 97 Chi-Ha, PzKpfw IV,

        Moderate: M4 Medium (all versions combined), Somua S-35, Crusader, Valentine

        Low: M3 Medium, M 13-40/14-41/15-42, PzKpfw III, PzKpfw 38(t), Churchill, Cromwell,

        A similar result to Nick's, but with a couple of earlier designs being promoted. The BT-5/7 was certainly a difficult combination to counter when most of the opposition was half the speed. And the Chi-Ha packed quite a large gun for an early design.

        At the bottom end, the British had a problem getting a decent gun into their tanks, and the rest of that cohort just aren't threatening, unless you aren't in a tank.

        Comment


        • #5
          The Tiger is the only logical "First Place" though others, namley the Matilda (for it's impenetrable armour), the Churchill (crocodile version, apparently greatly feared by the Germans and, of course, the T-34. Hence my ratings are thus

          No.1- Tiger

          Very High- Churchill, T-34 and Matilda

          High- Char B-1, Chi Ha, Souma S-35, Tiger II, IS-2, M-4 Medium

          The Remainder Are Low.
          Task Force Regenbogen- Support and Paras

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
            This one is tricky as many tanks had an 'edge' even if just for a small time. Chronologically, I think those best tanks that had this edge would be Char B1-bis (40), Matilda 2 (40-1), T-34/KV-1 (41-42), PzIV (42), Sherman (42-3), Tiger 1 (42-45), Churchill (42-5), Panther (43-5) and Tiger 2. In the end I plumped for Tiger 1.

            Very high (9) - Matilda 2, Churchill, Panther, Tiger 2, T-34, KV-1

            High (6) - Char B-1 bis, Souma S-35, IS-2, PzIII and IV

            Moderate (3) - Valentine, Cromwell, PzKpfw 38(t), BT-5/7, M3 Medium, M4

            Low (0) - Crusader, M 13-40/14-41/15-42, Type 97 Chi-Ha
            OK Nick. Figures in.
            "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by broderickwells View Post
              The Benchmark: Tiger I

              Very High: Matilda II, Char B-1 bis, T-34 (76 and 85 combined), Panther, KV-1,

              High: IS-2, Tiger II, BT-5/7, Type 97 Chi-Ha, PzKpfw IV,

              Moderate: M4 Medium (all versions combined), Somua S-35, Crusader, Valentine

              Low: M3 Medium, M 13-40/14-41/15-42, PzKpfw III, PzKpfw 38(t), Churchill, Cromwell,

              A similar result to Nick's, but with a couple of earlier designs being promoted. The BT-5/7 was certainly a difficult combination to counter when most of the opposition was half the speed. And the Chi-Ha packed quite a large gun for an early design.

              At the bottom end, the British had a problem getting a decent gun into their tanks, and the rest of that cohort just aren't threatening, unless you aren't in a tank.
              OK brod. Got 'em down.
              "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Dashy View Post
                The Tiger is the only logical "First Place" though others, namley the Matilda (for it's impenetrable armour), the Churchill (crocodile version, apparently greatly feared by the Germans and, of course, the T-34. Hence my ratings are thus

                No.1- Tiger

                Very High- Churchill, T-34 and Matilda

                High- Char B-1, Chi Ha, Souma S-35, Tiger II, IS-2, M-4 Medium

                The Remainder Are Low.
                OK, all entered.

                Just checking, Scott, but are you certain you want nothing to go into 'Moderate' (3 points)? I've entered strictly as you said but please don't hesitate to let me know if you change your mind about any of these.
                "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                Comment


                • #9
                  6. The ‘edge’ factor and Psychological elements (10) Tiger I

                  Very high (9) Panther Tiger II T-34 PzKpfw IV KV-1

                  High (6) IS-2 Char B-1 M4 PzKpfw III Matilda II

                  Moderate (3) Bt-5/7 Crusader Churchill Cromwell M3 Type 97

                  Low (0) PzKpfe 38T Valentine M 13-14 Somua S35

                  “Attack with aggression, but always have a plan of retreat”

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    That'll teach me to vote before looking to see how its going...

                    Yeah, for just blowing the mind of the enemy, there was nothing like the Tiger when it first appeared.
                    Odd, since aside from torsion-bars, I can't recall any specific breakthrough in tech that it had going for it.

                    Very high (9) Tiger 1. Tiger II,

                    High (6)Matilda II, Churchill, Char B-1 bis, Panther, KV-1, IS-2

                    Moderate (3) Somua S-35, Cromwell, PzKpfw IV, T-34, M4 Medium

                    Low (0) Crusader, Valentine, PzKpfw 38(t), PzKpfw III, M 13-40/14-41/15-42, Type 97 Chi-Ha, BT-5/7, M3,
                    "Why is the Rum gone?"

                    -Captain Jack

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Exorcist & wellsfargo,
                      Thanks. All done.
                      "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Winner---Tiger I



                        Very high (9)Tiger II
                        High (6)Churchill, IS-2, KV-1, CharB1 bis, PzIV, Panther, T-34
                        Moderate (3)M4 Sherman, BT-7, Type-97, PzIII, 38t, S-35, Matilda II, Cromwell, M3 Grant, Valentine
                        Low (0)Crusader, M-13/14
                        "In the absence of orders...find something and kill it!" Lt. General Erwin Rommel, 1942

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks David. On the spreadsheet now.
                          "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think this category is the easiest to decide an overall winner. Allied troops were frequently claiming to be engaged by Tigers when none were near, and even at the end of the war it would be a fearsome opponent to any enemy vehicle in tank-versus-tank combat. Tiger I would be the winner in my case.

                            Very high: Tiger II, T-34, Panther, Char B1 bis, KV-1, Matilda II
                            High: S-35, IS-2
                            Moderate: Pz.Kpfw.III, Pz.Kpfw.IV, M3, M4, Churchill, Pz.Kpfw.38(t), Valentine, BT
                            Low: Chi-Ha, Cromwell, Crusader, M13/40

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DogDodger View Post
                              I think this category is the easiest to decide an overall winner. Allied troops were frequently claiming to be engaged by Tigers when none were near, and even at the end of the war it would be a fearsome opponent to any enemy vehicle in tank-versus-tank combat. Tiger I would be the winner in my case.

                              Very high: Tiger II, T-34, Panther, Char B1 bis, KV-1, Matilda II
                              High: S-35, IS-2
                              Moderate: Pz.Kpfw.III, Pz.Kpfw.IV, M3, M4, Churchill, Pz.Kpfw.38(t), Valentine, BT
                              Low: Chi-Ha, Cromwell, Crusader, M13/40
                              Thanks Chris. All recorded.
                              "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                              Comment

                              Latest Topics

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X