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  • Greatest/Best Tank - Mobility

    Tips for Participants

    If you have not already done so, for an outline explanation of what is going on and how the polling and scoring processes will work please consult the Master Thread (Mega-Poll - Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 - Master Thread) and read the first three posts I have placed there, before beginning your participation in the 12 polls:


    After you've read those first three posts (or if you've already done so), you are ready to start on the 12 poll threads.

    When you enter the poll threads, don't forget to read the Criteria Information (post #2 on each thread) for information on what's covered by that particular criterion; and precise details you'll need to register your score for all 21 of the tanks.
    43
    Matilda II
    0.00%
    0
    Crusader
    0.00%
    0
    Churchill
    18.60%
    8
    Valentine
    4.65%
    2
    Cromwell
    0.00%
    0
    Somua S-35
    0.00%
    0
    Char B-1 bis
    0.00%
    0
    PzKpfw 38(t)
    0.00%
    0
    PzKpfw III
    2.33%
    1
    PzKpfw IV (short & long guns combined)
    0.00%
    0
    Tiger I
    2.33%
    1
    Panther
    2.33%
    1
    Tiger II
    0.00%
    0
    M 13-40/14-41/15-42
    0.00%
    0
    Type 97 Chi-Ha
    0.00%
    0
    BT-5/7
    11.63%
    5
    T-34 (76 and 85 combined)
    44.19%
    19
    KV-1
    0.00%
    0
    IS-2
    0.00%
    0
    M3 Medium
    0.00%
    0
    M4 Medium (all versions combined)
    13.95%
    6

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by panther3485; 22 Apr 12, 12:42.
    "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

  • #2
    Criteria Information



    Welcome to the Mobility Poll; one of twelve polls where you will have the opportunity to help decide the greatest/best tank of WW2, as determined by our ACG membership.
    You are also invited to discuss/debate the mobility attributes of all 21 tanks in this particular thread.


    2. Mobility (under own power) (max 40 points)

    This criterion refers to the mobility of the tank when travelling under its own power only, and is therefore concentrating mainly on tactical and operational mobility rather than strategic mobility. It arguably may - perhaps just occasionally - stray slightly over the boundary into the realms of strategic mobility in a few cases where tanks travel very long distances entirely on their own tracks in the course of a campaign. However, in the broader sense strategic mobility per se is generally where the tank is being transported. That is covered under criterion #11, Transportability & deployment.

    Factors heavily influencing tactical and/or operational mobility can include, but are not necessarily exclusive to, the following:

    • Speed under varying conditions (on and off road)
    • Range under varying conditions (on and off road)
    • Ability to negotiate rough terrain, obstacles and gradients
    • Ability to cross soft ground
    • Steering and agility
    • Reliability & mechanical stamina


    All Participants

    If you have not already done so, please vote for the one tank that you believe measures up best against this criterion.

    Level 2 Participants Only

    Brackets

    Please rate the remaining 20 tanks by placing each of them into one of the brackets below:

    In your opinion, was the mobility of the tank ...

    Excellent (36)
    Good (24)
    OK (12)
    Poor (0)
    Last edited by panther3485; 27 Apr 12, 11:09.
    "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

    Comment


    • #3
      The Churchill is an easy first place for me. It was not the fastest, but it could go places other tanks couldn't and showed itself capable of keeping up with strategic and tactical advances.

      As for the rest ...

      Excellent- T 34, Sherman
      the two mainstays of the allies were fast and had excellent battlefield mobility.

      Good- Panzer IV, Panzer III, IS-2, Cromwell

      The Panzer IV and III sustained the initial German advances, in the early stages of the war, and used their then superior mobility to outmanoeuvre the slower British and French heavies. The IS-2 had excellent mobility for a tank of it's class, reaching speeds some mediums would envy. The Cromwell had great mobility for a late war tank, though not quite as good IMO as the Sherman or T-34.

      Could you Arbitrate the rest please Panther? please and thankyou.
      Task Force Regenbogen- Support and Paras

      Comment


      • #4
        Churchills greatest strength, and what actually kept it from being axed in 43. It's easy to place armour on a tank. Ask the Soviets with their KV-1C's or KV-2's. Mobility and armour is rare.

        The Churchill was a gamechanger due to its ability to cross bad ground, eg mud and hills. Churchill units did not need the Rhino upgrade to get through the Boccage either. It also had marathon runner legs. In the run up to Prokhorovka, Churchills had less than 5% breakdowns after travelling 100's of Km's. T-70's and T-34's lost 42-3% each of their number doing the same, albeit much of that was down to enemy airstrikes. Operationally they were close to M4's, and far superior tactically.

        Excellent (36) - M4, T-34, Cromwell, PzKpfw 38(t)
        Good (24) - Pz III and IV, BT-5/7
        OK (12) - IS-2, Valentine, Somua S-35, Char B-1 bis, Tiger I, Panther, M 13-40/14-41/15-42, Type 97 Chi-Ha, M3 Medium, IS-2
        Poor (0) - Tiger 2, Crusader, Matilda 2, KV-1
        How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
        Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

        Comment


        • #5
          Benchmark: T-34 (76 and 85 combined)

          Excellent: M4 Medium (all versions combined), Churchill

          Good: Panther, PzKpfw III, PzKpfw IV (short & long guns combined), PzKpfw 38(t), Valentine, BT-5/7, M3 Medium, Cromwell, Somua S-35, M 13-40/14-41/15-42, Crusader, Type 97 Chi-Ha

          OK: KV-1, Tiger I, Matilda II, Char B-1 bis, IS-2,

          Poor: Tiger II,

          The T-34 could operate on just about any terrain, had a great turn of speed, and was untroubled by adverse weather.

          The two runners up, M4 medium and Churchill, were penalised for the inability to operate on softer ground/snow or weight, which meant finding a stronger bridge.

          The OK mob were either too heavy or had low speed nobbling them. The Tiger II was a slow fat b*st*rd.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by broderickwells View Post
            Benchmark: T-34 (76 and 85 combined)

            Excellent: M4 Medium (all versions combined), Churchill

            Good: Panther, PzKpfw III, PzKpfw IV (short & long guns combined), PzKpfw 38(t), Valentine, BT-5/7, M3 Medium, Cromwell, Somua S-35, M 13-40/14-41/15-42, Crusader, Type 97 Chi-Ha

            OK: KV-1, Tiger I, Matilda II, Char B-1 bis, IS-2,

            Poor: Tiger II,

            The T-34 could operate on just about any terrain, had a great turn of speed, and was untroubled by adverse weather.

            The two runners up, M4 medium and Churchill, were penalised for the inability to operate on softer ground/snow or weight, which meant finding a stronger bridge.

            The OK mob were either too heavy or had low speed nobbling them. The Tiger II was a slow fat b*st*rd.
            Churchills could carry their own bridges, or even be one .





            How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
            Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Dashy View Post
              The Churchill is an easy first place for me. It was not the fastest, but it could go places other tanks couldn't and showed itself capable of keeping up with strategic and tactical advances.

              As for the rest ...

              Excellent- T 34, Sherman
              the two mainstays of the allies were fast and had excellent battlefield mobility.

              Good- Panzer IV, Panzer III, IS-2, Cromwell

              The Panzer IV and III sustained the initial German advances, in the early stages of the war, and used their then superior mobility to outmanoeuvre the slower British and French heavies. The IS-2 had excellent mobility for a tank of it's class, reaching speeds some mediums would envy. The Cromwell had great mobility for a late war tank, though not quite as good IMO as the Sherman or T-34.

              Could you Arbitrate the rest please Panther? please and thankyou.
              Thanks Scott.

              The remaining tanks will receive the default 1/2 points scores*.


              *Edit: The method of 'default' scoring for unplaced tanks has since been amended. These tanks will now be given an average of the scores derived from those members who have voted for them or placed them. If anyone is unsure how this works or would like clarification, please do not hesitate to ask me.
              Last edited by panther3485; 28 Jul 12, 11:06.
              "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
                Churchills greatest strength, and what actually kept it from being axed in 43. It's easy to place armour on a tank. Ask the Soviets with their KV-1C's or KV-2's. Mobility and armour is rare.

                The Churchill was a gamechanger due to its ability to cross bad ground, eg mud and hills. Churchill units did not need the Rhino upgrade to get through the Boccage either. It also had marathon runner legs. In the run up to Prokhorovka, Churchills had less than 5% breakdowns after travelling 100's of Km's. T-70's and T-34's lost 42-3% each of their number doing the same, albeit much of that was down to enemy airstrikes. Operationally they were close to M4's, and far superior tactically.

                Excellent (36) - M4, T-34, Cromwell, PzKpfw 38(t)
                Good (24) - Pz III and IV, BT-5/7
                OK (12) - IS-2, Valentine, Somua S-35, Char B-1 bis, Tiger I, Panther, M 13-40/14-41/15-42, Type 97 Chi-Ha, M3 Medium, IS-2
                Poor (0) - Tiger 2, Crusader, Matilda 2, KV-1
                Thanks Nick. All registered.
                Last edited by panther3485; 25 Apr 12, 09:18.
                "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by broderickwells View Post
                  Benchmark: T-34 (76 and 85 combined)

                  Excellent: M4 Medium (all versions combined), Churchill

                  Good: Panther, PzKpfw III, PzKpfw IV (short & long guns combined), PzKpfw 38(t), Valentine, BT-5/7, M3 Medium, Cromwell, Somua S-35, M 13-40/14-41/15-42, Crusader, Type 97 Chi-Ha

                  OK: KV-1, Tiger I, Matilda II, Char B-1 bis, IS-2,

                  Poor: Tiger II,

                  The T-34 could operate on just about any terrain, had a great turn of speed, and was untroubled by adverse weather.

                  The two runners up, M4 medium and Churchill, were penalised for the inability to operate on softer ground/snow or weight, which meant finding a stronger bridge.

                  The OK mob were either too heavy or had low speed nobbling them. The Tiger II was a slow fat b*st*rd.
                  Thanks brod. All on the sheet now.
                  "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    2 Mobility (40) T-34

                    Excellent (36) M4 Churchill Panther Cromwell Matilda II Tiger I PzKpfw IV

                    Good (24) Tiger II PzKpfw III Crusader IS-2 M3 KV-1

                    OK (12) Valentine PzKpfw 38T BT 5/7

                    Poor (0) M13-14 Char B-1 Somua S-35 Type 97


                    “Attack with aggression, but always have a plan of retreat”

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wellsfargo View Post
                      2 Mobility (40) T-34

                      Excellent (36) M4 Churchill Panther Cromwell Matilda II Tiger I PzKpfw IV

                      Good (24) Tiger II PzKpfw III Crusader IS-2 M3 KV-1

                      OK (12) Valentine PzKpfw 38T BT 5/7

                      Poor (0) M13-14 Char B-1 Somua S-35 Type 97


                      “Attack with aggression, but always have a plan of retreat”
                      Thanks Martin. Recorded.
                      "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by broderickwells View Post
                        Benchmark: T-34 (76 and 85 combined)

                        Excellent: M4 Medium (all versions combined), Churchill

                        Good: Panther, PzKpfw III, PzKpfw IV (short & long guns combined), PzKpfw 38(t), Valentine, BT-5/7, M3 Medium, Cromwell, Somua S-35, M 13-40/14-41/15-42, Crusader, Type 97 Chi-Ha

                        OK: KV-1, Tiger I, Matilda II, Char B-1 bis, IS-2,

                        Poor: Tiger II,

                        The T-34 could operate on just about any terrain, had a great turn of speed, and was untroubled by adverse weather.

                        The two runners up, M4 medium and Churchill, were penalised for the inability to operate on softer ground/snow or weight, which meant finding a stronger bridge.

                        The OK mob were either too heavy or had low speed nobbling them. The Tiger II was a slow fat b*st*rd.
                        To defend the King Tiger...The King Matilda(these two tanks remind me of King Hippo, and good for you if you get the reference)was slower and fatter. The Tiger had a lighter footprint and could climb a much steeper grade. Now, if you want to grade the King Tiger low due to her dismal fuel economy and poor range I will be forced to agree with you. But she's only a slow fat [email protected] if the King Matilda is slower and fatter. All in all, a great list. Agree with you 100% on the T-34!
                        "In the absence of orders...find something and kill it!" Lt. General Erwin Rommel, 1942

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by wellsfargo View Post
                          2 Mobility (40) T-34

                          Excellent (36) M4 Churchill Panther Cromwell Matilda II Tiger I PzKpfw IV

                          Good (24) Tiger II PzKpfw III Crusader IS-2 M3 KV-1

                          OK (12) Valentine PzKpfw 38T BT 5/7

                          Poor (0) M13-14 Char B-1 Somua S-35 Type 97


                          “Attack with aggression, but always have a plan of retreat”
                          Not to go on a King Matilda bashing rant or anything, but did you intend to put it in the excellent category?
                          "In the absence of orders...find something and kill it!" Lt. General Erwin Rommel, 1942

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Winner---T-34


                            Excellent (36)M4 Sherman, Panther, BT-7,
                            Good (24)M3Grant, Churchill, Cromwell, 38t, S-35, PzIV, KV-1, PzIII
                            OK (12)Valentine, Char B1bis, M-13(14,15), Crusader, Type-97, IS-2, TigerI, TigerII
                            Poor (0)MatildaII


                            Ok, Broderick said it right, the T-34 was the go anywhere do anything tank. Built on the famous Christie suspension, she has great field capabilities including trench crossings, river fordings, and grade climbing. Her fuel economy was astounding as was the range it could cover in a single tank of fuel. Top speed...forget about it! Any road condition, any time of year, this tank gets there first and ready to do the job.

                            Supplied with enough fuel, the Panther could do about anything the T-34 could, some things even better. Her pathetic fuel economy is her only downfall. The Sherman gets high ranks for off-road speeds and versatility.

                            I couldn't justify placing the Churchill in the excellent category for a few reasons. First off, the power to weight ratio didn't warrant any happy faces, and her on and off-road speeds were an eye-sore. While she has good range, her fuel economy barely beats out the Tiger I. On the bright side, the Churchill handles off-road obstacles remarkably well. The tracks in front of hull design gives it alot of abilities clearing obstacles, and will warrant a good score when time to judge her contribution to tank design. Oh...and I couldn't find a tank on the list able to vertically clear an obstacle as high as the Churchill...four feet!

                            Although I would like to, I just couldn't justify putting the two Tigers in the basement with the Matilda. While having the worst fuel economy of the bunch, their ability to clear over or through obstacles and climb high grades on slippery surfaces due to their wide tracks can't be overlooked.

                            I had alot of fun making this list and look forward to some constructive debate soon!!
                            "In the absence of orders...find something and kill it!" Lt. General Erwin Rommel, 1942

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks David, recorded now.
                              "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                              Comment

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