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Best Tank in action 1942 up to 1st El Alamein

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  • Pirate-Drakk
    replied
    Originally posted by The Purist View Post
    Oh, c'mon gents. We have been down this road before. There has not been a tank to match the M3 Grant since,..., since,..., well, since the M3 Grant.

    It is the shape of things to come. Ahead of its time and its time is coming again.

    Remember,... you saw it here first.
    I have a weak spot for the M3 Grant/Lee as it was probably the best of the "land battleship" concept. I think if there were better training and doctrine for use of this weapon, it would have been proven more effective.


    The T-34 is the most overrated (and most destroyed) tank in history. The early models were not so hot, with their bad optics and low velocity cannon.

    However, the PkzIIIJ was a battle tested weapon that lacked the problems of both the M3 and T-34, and it was proven to be a more effective tactical weapon even against the Sherman M4s to come.

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  • Desiree Clary
    replied
    Originally posted by JBark View Post
    Wasn't early '42 the period where Stalin had the factories streamline production and made things so simple that the T-34 suffered tremendously?
    Could have fooled the heck out of me. I'll call my dad and ask him. Because, you know, ugly green thingies that fight other ugly green thingies I know naught about

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  • Arthwys
    replied
    As much as I wanted to vote for the Stuart, as she is the cutest tank ever, the choice was T34 in the end.

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  • panther3485
    replied
    Originally posted by JBark View Post
    Wasn't early '42 the period where Stalin had the factories streamline production and made things so simple that the T-34 suffered tremendously?
    IIRC from my reading, it was also a time of considerable disruption so small wonder the build quality suffered most at about this time.

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  • JBark
    replied
    Originally posted by Desiree Clary View Post
    Okay, once again you fiends have stumped me to the point where I had to call my dad and get the 4-1-1. He said that at stage of the war the T-34 was incomparably the best ugly green fighting thingie...uh, sorry, "tank" . And I believe him, so there you go
    Wasn't early '42 the period where Stalin had the factories streamline production and made things so simple that the T-34 suffered tremendously?

    Leave a comment:


  • Desiree Clary
    replied
    Okay, once again you fiends have stumped me to the point where I had to call my dad and get the 4-1-1. He said that at stage of the war the T-34 was incomparably the best ugly green fighting thingie...uh, sorry, "tank" . And I believe him, so there you go

    Leave a comment:


  • The Purist
    replied
    Oh, c'mon gents. We have been down this road before. There has not been a tank to match the M3 Grant since,..., since,..., well, since the M3 Grant.

    It is the shape of things to come. Ahead of its time and its time is coming again.

    Remember,... you saw it here first.

    Leave a comment:


  • cbo
    replied
    Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
    Fair enough . I should have adjusted the timeline a few weeks earlier to exclude all the next generation of tanks, that appeared around this time.
    Staying within the intended timeline, I'd say T34. It has solid dual-purpose armament with AP that would still, at this time, knock holes in all the other tanks except the KV-1 beyond the distance where they would do damage to the T34. Protection is still good and mobility is still excellent. Creature comfort was never a big deal in the T34, but it ceases to matter much once you can move about in relative safety and most threats with ease.

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  • Merkava188
    replied
    I'd either use a Sherman or a Valentine.

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  • panther3485
    replied
    Yep, doing a TAG on this one.
    For me, it was tight between the T-34 and the PzKpfw III J, with the Grant running third.
    Went for the T-34.

    Leave a comment:


  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    I'd say the T 34 followed by the PzIII, then the M3 Grant / Lee. The Pz IV really comes into its own with the fitting of a long 75mm The KV 1 was too heavy, too unreliable, and had no more firepower than the T 34.

    The M3 Stuart was a good light tank for the time, but that doesn't qualify it as "best."

    The Valentine really shouldn't have seen combat by Alamein unless it was to be used solely as a light tank. Valentine brigades in North Africa took a beating whenever committed to combat as battle tanks.
    The Russians recognized the design's value as a light tank and that's why they took so many on Lend Lease. It was streets ahead of their own T 70.

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  • Nick the Noodle
    replied
    Originally posted by cbo View Post
    Voted "other" representing the Panzer IV Ausf F2/G
    Fair enough . I should have adjusted the timeline a few weeks earlier to exclude all the next generation of tanks, that appeared around this time.

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  • cbo
    replied
    Voted "other" representing the Panzer IV Ausf F2/G

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  • cbo
    replied
    Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
    Rommel had 4 Panzer IV specials technically available for Gazala (24.5-21.6.42), but none were used because no suitable ammo had yet been received. It is possible that some ammo would have been received in time for 1st Battle El Alamein, and thus perhaps used then.
    Panzer IV Ausf F2/G were also arriving in numbers on the Eastern Front in spring and early summer of 1942. 80 were made in April, 85 in May and 72 in June. 23. Panzerdivision had recieved 6 Ausf. F2/G by May 12th and reported the loss of a Panzer IV Ausf. F2/G prior to May 27th. So it was definately in combat by then.

    Valentine IX's (with 6pdrs) were sent with PQ16, thus would have been on Soviet territory 1.6.42 latest. While the most powerful tank here, in terms of AT (assuming no Pz IV specials), its lack of ability against soft targets was a real issue. However, it didn't stop the Soviets considering the Valentine the best light tank 41-43.
    Interesting - I was under the impression, that the first 6-pdr Valentines were made in late summer 1942 and that the first 6-pdr Crusaders had their combat debut at 2nd El Alamein in October 1942. IIRC 6-pdr Churchills were also not produced until some time during the summer.

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  • Gooner
    replied
    Panzer III 'Special'

    Has some advantages over the T-34 - like a 5-man crew - so doesn't deserve to lose 8-nil.

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