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Best Tank in action 1942 up to 1st El Alamein

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  • Best Tank in action 1942 up to 1st El Alamein

    No Tigers, Shermans, Churchills or Pz IV specials are available.

    M3 Lee/Grant



    Panzer IIIJ



    Valentine


    Picture is probably an XI, as it has a coaxial mg.

    Panzer IVF1



    M3 Stuart



    T-34 1942



    KV-1 1942

    41
    Lee/Grant M3
    7.32%
    3
    Stuart M3
    0.00%
    0
    Panzer IIIJ
    9.76%
    4
    Panzer IV F1
    7.32%
    3
    Valentine
    2.44%
    1
    T-34
    65.85%
    27
    KV-1
    0.00%
    0
    Other
    7.32%
    3
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  • #2
    Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
    No Tigers, Shermans, Churchills or Pz IV specials are available.
    Why no Panzer IV "specials" - i.e. Ausf. F2/G? 10 were sent to Rommel in May 1942 and the Germans even managed to loose two of them before July 20th, probably during 1st El Alamein.

    Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
    Valentine


    Picture is probably an XI, as it has a coaxial mg.
    And thus not really appropriate for the timeframe. AFAIK, Valentines in this period would be armed with 2-pdr guns, not 75mm weapons nor 6-pdrs. More like this:

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    • #3
      Given the limits imposed, I will go with the T-34.
      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

      Comment


      • #4
        T-34 is what if.... no!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
          T-34 is what if.... no!
          It's included in the poll by its creator, so...it's the best of the bunch offered, IMHO.
          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
            T-34 is what if.... no!
            I think the idea is to choose best tank in action between January 1st and July 1st 1942 on alle fronts - at least that is how I interpret the poll.

            The omission of the Sherman makes sense, as it did not see combat until October 1942, the Tiger I also entered action later in the year. Churchills first saw combat in August 1942 at Dieppe. But the the Panzer IV Ausf. F2/G was used in combat prior to July 1st 1942, so it should really be part of the poll.

            I suppose you could also include some Japanese tanks and British Cruisers as well as Italian tanks.

            Comment


            • #7
              No mention of the Matilda II, "Queen of the Desert ?"
              Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by cbo View Post
                Why no Panzer IV "specials" - i.e. Ausf. F2/G? 10 were sent to Rommel in May 1942 and the Germans even managed to loose two of them before July 20th, probably during 1st El Alamein.



                And thus not really appropriate for the timeframe. AFAIK, Valentines in this period would be armed with 2-pdr guns, not 75mm weapons nor 6-pdrs. More like this:

                Rommel had 4 Panzer IV specials technically available for Gazala (24.5-21.6.42), but none were used because no suitable ammo had yet been received. It is possible that some ammo would have been received in time for 1st Battle El Alamein, and thus perhaps used then.

                Valentine IX's (with 6pdrs) were sent with PQ16, thus would have been on Soviet territory 1.6.42 latest. While the most powerful tank here, in terms of AT (assuming no Pz IV specials), its lack of ability against soft targets was a real issue. However, it didn't stop the Soviets considering the Valentine the best light tank 41-43.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by the ace View Post
                  No mention of the Matilda II, "Queen of the Desert ?"
                  Under 'other'. Its greatest asset, although still good, was let down by the 2pdr (still no HE), and unreliability.
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                  • #10
                    I also went with the T-34.
                    ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
                    IN MARE IN COELO

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Panzer III 'Special'

                      Has some advantages over the T-34 - like a 5-man crew - so doesn't deserve to lose 8-nil.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
                        Rommel had 4 Panzer IV specials technically available for Gazala (24.5-21.6.42), but none were used because no suitable ammo had yet been received. It is possible that some ammo would have been received in time for 1st Battle El Alamein, and thus perhaps used then.
                        Panzer IV Ausf F2/G were also arriving in numbers on the Eastern Front in spring and early summer of 1942. 80 were made in April, 85 in May and 72 in June. 23. Panzerdivision had recieved 6 Ausf. F2/G by May 12th and reported the loss of a Panzer IV Ausf. F2/G prior to May 27th. So it was definately in combat by then.

                        Valentine IX's (with 6pdrs) were sent with PQ16, thus would have been on Soviet territory 1.6.42 latest. While the most powerful tank here, in terms of AT (assuming no Pz IV specials), its lack of ability against soft targets was a real issue. However, it didn't stop the Soviets considering the Valentine the best light tank 41-43.
                        Interesting - I was under the impression, that the first 6-pdr Valentines were made in late summer 1942 and that the first 6-pdr Crusaders had their combat debut at 2nd El Alamein in October 1942. IIRC 6-pdr Churchills were also not produced until some time during the summer.

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                        • #13
                          Voted "other" representing the Panzer IV Ausf F2/G

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by cbo View Post
                            Voted "other" representing the Panzer IV Ausf F2/G
                            Fair enough . I should have adjusted the timeline a few weeks earlier to exclude all the next generation of tanks, that appeared around this time.
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                            • #15
                              I'd say the T 34 followed by the PzIII, then the M3 Grant / Lee. The Pz IV really comes into its own with the fitting of a long 75mm The KV 1 was too heavy, too unreliable, and had no more firepower than the T 34.

                              The M3 Stuart was a good light tank for the time, but that doesn't qualify it as "best."

                              The Valentine really shouldn't have seen combat by Alamein unless it was to be used solely as a light tank. Valentine brigades in North Africa took a beating whenever committed to combat as battle tanks.
                              The Russians recognized the design's value as a light tank and that's why they took so many on Lend Lease. It was streets ahead of their own T 70.

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