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Best Tank at the Battle of Kursk?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post
    A key aspect in this count would be who owned the battlefield after the fight, hence they could recover more tanks versus a write-off. Ownership of the battle areas starts to swing in late 1942.
    Absolutely.

    In Cult Icons defense, it should be noted that Soviet tank losses in 1941 could give correct incredibly one sided kill ratios.
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    • #77
      Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post
      A key aspect in this count would be who owned the battlefield after the fight, hence they could recover more tanks versus a write-off. Ownership of the battle areas starts to swing in late 1942.
      That is the important point. Mobility kills and mechanical fallouts suddenly become total write offs.

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      • #78
        The last few posts regarding rapid advancement of an army through its opponents territory which makes recovery impossible is spot on. However the question would still remain on how the opponents tanks were destroyed.

        Certainly they were not all destroyed by the tanks of the invaders. Unfortunately there probably is no real way to get a percentage of the Soviet tanks knocked out by tanks, anti tank guns, dive bombers, ect...

        We are talking about a rather small period of time here..22 June through 31 October in which the Germans overran thousands of square kilometers of ground.

        One thing is for sure though. You cannot argue in defense of the soviets and against the Germans that tanks left on the battlefield that could have been repaired should not be counted as total write-offs. They absolutely are because the Soviets did not retrieve them. The question then becomes what I stated above...How and by what weapons were the tanks crippled. Even abandoned tanks are, for all intents and purposes, total write-offs for the Russians if they are taken by the Germans.

        I am hoping the new Dubno book coming out in a few months will shed some light on this as it was a major clash of tanks at the outset of Barbarossa.

        https://www.bookdepository.com/Dubno...?ref=grid-view

        Regards,Kurt
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        • #79
          Originally posted by Kurt Knispel View Post
          The last few posts regarding rapid advancement of an army through its opponents territory which makes recovery impossible is spot on. However the question would still remain on how the opponents tanks were destroyed.

          Certainly they were not all destroyed by the tanks of the invaders. Unfortunately there probably is no real way to get a percentage of the Soviet tanks knocked out by tanks, anti tank guns, dive bombers, ect...

          We are talking about a rather small period of time here..22 June through 31 October in which the Germans overran thousands of square kilometers of ground.

          One thing is for sure though. You cannot argue in defense of the soviets and against the Germans that tanks left on the battlefield that could have been repaired should not be counted as total write-offs. They absolutely are because the Soviets did not retrieve them. The question then becomes what I stated above...How and by what weapons were the tanks crippled. Even abandoned tanks are, for all intents and purposes, total write-offs for the Russians if they are taken by the Germans.

          I am hoping the new Dubno book coming out in a few months will shed some light on this as it was a major clash of tanks at the outset of Barbarossa.

          https://www.bookdepository.com/Dubno...?ref=grid-view

          Regards,Kurt
          Waiting for the Dubno book myself. But, it should be no surprise the number of Soviet tanks lost on the battlefields to mechanical breakdown, lack of fuel, driven into swamps, stuck or wedged in terrain because of limited time, poor drivers' training--many accounts of these drop-offs in memoirs.
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