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History’s 100 Greatest Commanders - Round One - Poll no 3 of 4.

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  • #31
    Lee
    Togo
    Mitchell
    Doenitz
    Dowding

    To continue with my criteria that a Great General be innovative & original, exploit enemy weaknesses that they were the first to see (all weaknesses in the losing force are easy to see in retrospect, these guys saw it in real time!), and faced equal or superior forces.

    Where would the world be today if not for Dowding's tactics & tenacity?
    Did naval warfare change forever after Togo's victory? (Yes!)
    What would have happened if Lee had a navy?
    What happened to every navy after Mitchell?
    and (again with the navy stuff!!) look at the originality of Doenitz, what if Allied bombing couldn't destroy the sub-yards of Germany?
    History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon. Napoleon Bonaparte
    _________
    BoRG
    __________
    "I am Arthur, King of the Britons!"

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    • #32
      Me thinks Torien is a naval buff...!?????????

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      • #33
        Originally posted by galland View Post
        Me thinks Torien is a naval buff...!?????????
        Just a `wee' little bit.

        I actually have a preference for air power, but that usually translates into Navy stuff too.
        History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon. Napoleon Bonaparte
        _________
        BoRG
        __________
        "I am Arthur, King of the Britons!"

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        • #34
          Thanks for the acknowledgement Post Captain.

          There seem to be very few Navy enthusiasts here.
          History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon. Napoleon Bonaparte
          _________
          BoRG
          __________
          "I am Arthur, King of the Britons!"

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Torien View Post
            Did naval warfare change forever after Togo's victory? (Yes!)
            But surely that was more the fact that the actual mechanism of the pre-dreadnought was revealed to be inefficient rather than anything Togo actually did.

            look at the originality of Doenitz, what if Allied bombing couldn't destroy the sub-yards of Germany?
            He still loses because by May 1943 American yards were outbuilding him, the mid-air gap was closed, the Allies could flood the sea with escorts and Enigma had been broken.
            Colonel Summers' widely quoted critique of US strategy in the Vietnam War is having a modest vogue...it is poor history, poor strategy, and poor Clausewitz to boot - Robet Komer, Survival, 27:2, p. 94.

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            • #36
              look at the originality of Doenitz, what if Allied bombing couldn't destroy the sub-yards of Germany
              U-boat losses in World WarII

              Ships 264 Includes a few losses to merchant ships

              Aircraft 250 Includes all ship-based aircraft

              Aircraft & Ships * 37

              Missing 51 See U-boats missing in Action

              Air raids on ports 43 .

              Mines 35

              Captured 3 U-110, U-505 and U-570

              Scuttled 242 Read about Operation Regenbogen

              Surrendered 155 Most scuttled in Operation Deadlight

              Paid Off 37 Usually battered or "tired" boats

              Accidents 25 Losses to accidents or "friendly fire"

              Other (+) 7
              43 U-boats bombed in port is a small faction of the U-boats losted

              http://uboat.net/fates/losses/cause.htm
              FoxNEWS "The World is unfair and we are running scared"

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              • #37
                Originally posted by thejester View Post
                But surely that was more the fact that the actual mechanism of the pre-dreadnought was revealed to be inefficient rather than anything Togo actually did.
                My point in evaluating all Great Generals is that they (the general) were the first to observe & exploit a weakness (inefficiency). Yes, the pre-dreadnought era ended with the sinking of the Russian Fleet, but Togo & this battle were The reason. Hind-sight is always 20-20, Togo had Fore-Sight!


                Originally posted by thejester
                He still loses because by May 1943 American yards were outbuilding him, the mid-air gap was closed, the Allies could flood the sea with escorts and Enigma had been broken.
                Again, look at all the work necessary to counter Doenitz. Yes, all of these tactics & the reality of American escort production eventually reduced the U-Boat threat, but this doesn't remove the initial level of success & certainly did not remove the fear of further attacks. Look at the level of resources dedicated to detecting & removing the submarine threat. The size of the convoys was immense and the relative cost to make U-boats & train their small crews was neglible by comparison. A wonderful tactic.
                History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon. Napoleon Bonaparte
                _________
                BoRG
                __________
                "I am Arthur, King of the Britons!"

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by PatBC View Post
                  U-boat losses in World WarII



                  43 U-boats bombed in port is a small faction of the U-boats losted

                  http://uboat.net/fates/losses/cause.htm
                  Please see above response to thejester.
                  These statistics are a good answer to further my point about the genius of Doenitz' tactics.
                  Also, I wasn't referring to losses of boats in port, I meant the shipyards themselves. Loss of production was the main reason the U-boat threat was reduced. More boats in the sea & even the cracking of Enigma would have been a small issue (more Captains in the sea probably would have led them to the discovery that their codes were compromised!)
                  History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon. Napoleon Bonaparte
                  _________
                  BoRG
                  __________
                  "I am Arthur, King of the Britons!"

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    This poll is now closed!

                    Thank you for your votes.

                    The top eight Generals heading into the next round are:

                    Robert E. Lee - 43
                    Dwight D. Eisenhower - 30
                    Thomas J. “Stonewall” Jackson - 25
                    Ulysses S. Grant - 24
                    Helmuth von Moltke - 20
                    William T. Sherman - 18
                    Nathan Bedford Forrest - 15
                    John J. Pershing - 15

                    Dr. S.
                    Imagine a ball of iron, the size of the sun. And once a year a tiny sparrow brushes its surface with the tip of its wing. And when that ball of iron, the size of the sun, is worn away to nothing, your punishment will barely have begun.

                    www.sinisterincorporated.co.uk

                    www.tabletown.co.uk

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