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Are Arabs Barbarians (LONG) ????

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  • Are Arabs Barbarians (LONG) ????

    Hello all,

    After last weeks tragedy in Fallujah, i've finally come to the conclusion that the Arabs are barbarians. I don't rush to this judgement, but I believe that there are historical precedents that justify this conclusion.

    First of all, during the Middle Ages in Europe, Islamic civilization was more scientifically and technologically advanced than the western kingdoms. However, once the Arabs' knowledge was shared by the Crusades or trade, the West leapfrogged past the Islamic kingdoms.
    I think the Reformation and the Englitenment changed Western thinking and is crucial to this argument.

    Western people began thinking in terms of how they personally could affect change their soceities and environments. They slowly began to rule themselves. Islamic soceities, which didn't have these crucial events, began to stagnate under theocratic rule.

    I believe that although the Arab countries were occupied during the Age of Colonialism, they have been declining for centuries.
    My proof is the lack of scientific or technological achievements by Arabs since the 17th century. How many great Islamic structures are there in the world? How many were built during the last century? The archetict for the Petronas towers in Malaysia was from Yale.

    Islamic mathemeticians were some of the world's greatest before the 1700's. With such a long heritage in math, where are the great Middle Eastern software houses?

    I believe that the Arabs are so single-minded in defending their religion, destroying Israel and fostering terrorism that they have become barbaric.

    Some major inventions by Western and Islamic culture:
    Automobile--West
    Airliners---West
    Cell Phones--West

    Automobile Bomb--Islamic
    Airliner Bomb--Islamic
    Cell Phone Bomb--Islamic

    If muslims desire peace, they certainly don't show it by their applications of technology.

    Your opinions are welcome.

    Dark_Hercule
    You can never have too much reconnaissance--Gen. G.S. Patton, Jr.

  • #2
    Although I understand your frustration in this issue, I am ....... suprised at your statement. The way I read it, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that you are painting every Arab or Muslim with the same brush? I personally know some Muslims and I can assure you that they are disgusted with what is going on in Iraq and elsewhere as we are. Where I live, it would be the same as saying that all Quebec residents are separatists and want to break up Canada. I am from Quebec, french and am not a separatist. I am not looking to upset you, but please clarify the point I made. If I was the mod for this thread, I would have closed it.
    http://canadiangenealogyandresearch.ca

    Soviet and Canadian medal collector!

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    • #3
      First of all, I think that this post might be offensive to some people. I’m not sure if there are anyone on this forum is of the Islamic faith, but you could word your post a little differently.

      Second, Europe was more advanced then a lot of civilizations, not just the Islamic Empire. Saying that Arabs are barbaric just because they were surpassed scientifically by Europe would mean that all cultures during the feudal ages were barbaric .

      As for the lack of great structures ( at least modern) could be because of greedy rulers squandering of their countries wealth.

      The fact is at the height of the Islamic empire, it stretched from southwest Asia all the way to North Africa. This civilization left an indelible mark on all civilizations they came in contact with ( an example would be the caravel ). Now that great empire is one and replaced by many countries with varying degrees of wealth and technology .

      To sum up, it would be wrong to call someone barbaric based on their religion or where they live. I mean, us Christians have done some pretty barbaric things too. Yes, I would indeed say that the people who carried out the attacks on Fallujah are barbarians ( and all terrorist included) but it would be presumptuous of me to label people I haven’t even met. So I would say that terrorist and those who support them are are barbarians, but not ALL people who live in the region.
      Ok im done ranting!

      Comment


      • #4
        *%@$!*&^$%@ I hit the esc key after typing for almost a frickin' hour.

        I'm not even going to rewrite it all except for a few points:

        -What defines civilized? What defines Barbaric? Romans called many others 'barbarians' even though they had culture, social structure, economies (even coinage), spiritual beliefs, and limited government.

        -The Arabs world took a different path (a religious-tribal one until recently) than Europe did (which took a secular-techno-industrial one). As a result of the Industrial Revolution (which never really occured in the Middle East), the West (for the most part) became much more secular and material oriented; something that never occured in the Middle East for a number of reasons.

        -Their actions now (and in the recent past) are a response to what they see as as 'attack' on their religion-oriented society by a god-less, selfish, material society.

        -I don't believe Arabs invented the 'bomb'; that probably came from China or Europe. Saying they invented the 'x' bomb is bit like saying the US invented the weather satellite or the communications satellite; the Soviets 'invented' (and developed and launched) the satellite, the application afterwards is a little deceptive about where the original idea came from. I'm certain various military and intelligence agencies (Western or otherwise) came up with 'car', 'cell-phone' and/or 'airplane' bombs well before Arab terrorists actually used them.

        -Westerners being 'civilized' is a point of view. Many Europeans (and others) consider America's death penalty 'uncivilized'; so too could abortion and lack of social equalty be called 'uncivilized'.

        I can't see how an entire group of socio-religious people can be grouped under one description. Should all Catholics be called morally corrupt since they have pedophile preists within their midsts? Should all blue-blood 'old money' types be considered 'sophisticated' and 'cultured' because they buy art and attend the theatre?

        Are all politicians and lawyers opportunistic, greedy SOBs... I'm leaving that one alone.
        If voting could really change things, it would be illegal.

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        • #5
          Arab Barbarians?

          No, Arabs are not barbarians, anymore than we are.

          In explanation, read "Onward Muslim Soldiers", by Robert Spencer.

          Contrary to the pleas of "scholars", Islam is a religion of war and violence. Many times in the Koran, Muslims are exhorted to "fight the unbelievers" (any non-Muslim) and to give them three choices, to wit:

          1) convert to Islam;
          2) pay a tax levied only on non-Muslims, and be relegated to second-class status, with the Muslim leadership being able to curtail or abrogate your rights at any time without cause;
          3) prepare for Muslims to make war on you.

          After war, all survivors may be either killed or enslaved, accoridng to the whims of the conquering general. In addition, Muslim warriors are encouraged to take as much booty as they may carry. This includes the taking of persons as slaves.

          Thus you see that it is the Koran and the ahadith (teachings) of Muhammad that are responsible for the barbaric conduct of the people in Fallujah, and other incidents since the start of operations in Iraq. According to the Koran, non-believers are less than human, rather like the Nazis' untermenschen.

          Something else of note, not reported in the mainstream media, is the plan of Muslims in nations that they emigrate to, including the US and Europe.

          Knowing that we have free expression, they propagate their plans to seize power in every nation they inhabit, transforming them all into Islamic republics and again offering the "three choices". If we repress their inflammatory and seditious speech, they will make a great a cry and loudly declare that we are repressing their religion. Any inquiry about their inflammatory speech will be explained away by the oft-used proviso that we are "mis-representing" them. How does one misrepresent the three choices?
          Mens Est Clavis Victoriae
          (The Mind Is The Key To Victory)

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          • #6
            Re: Barbarian

            @Dark Hercule:

            By your own reasoning, the Arabs are as barbarian as Gen. Patton you ignorant twit.
            I hate it when I see one of those road signs that says "Draw Bridge Ahead" and I don't have a pencil.
            -Lou Chiafullo

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            • #7
              Originally posted by chrisvalla
              *%@$!*&^$%@ I hit the esc key after typing for almost a frickin' hour.
              I just hate it, when that happens.
              I have no problem at all with being proved wrong. Especially when being proved wrong leaves the world a better place, than being proved right...

              Comment


              • #8
                While the pot may be calling the kettle black, I don't think the name calling is necessary.
                If voting could really change things, it would be illegal.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Re: Barbarian

                  Originally posted by Geeky Nerd
                  @Dark Hercule:

                  By your own reasoning, the Arabs are as barbarian as Gen. Patton you ignorant twit.
                  To Geeky Nerd:

                  Welcome to the boards. We are a bunch of individuals who share at least one passion here and that is military history. We are cordial, polite and do not flame one another. I have already addressed the issue Dark_Hercule about his post, read the reply under my name. You have to refrain from name calling. That is one thing which will not be tolerated. I know you understand. Regards :nonono:
                  http://canadiangenealogyandresearch.ca

                  Soviet and Canadian medal collector!

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                  • #10
                    Ok Boss, no probs. Apologies.
                    I hate it when I see one of those road signs that says "Draw Bridge Ahead" and I don't have a pencil.
                    -Lou Chiafullo

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The images of the Mutilated corpses were disgusting and frustrating to see. However we have to understand that to those of us in the west who were shocked by those images are not exposed to that type of death everyday. For each of those mutilated bodies there are probably hundreds of Iraqis dead and alive that are disfigured by both sides of this conflict. The jeering crowds around the bodies certainly contained many individuals who have lost loved ones to the Saddam Hussien Regime, the Insurgent forces and Coalition Forces. It is probably impossible for those of us in relative safety to understand their mindsets.

                      While those responsible for such a cynical act as difiguring dead bodies for a political point should certainly be held in contempt; we cannot afford to group all Muslims together in deriding them as barbarians.
                      "War is the extension of politics by other means." - "On War" Carl Von Clauswitz

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                      • #12
                        Just rephrase it to, Islamic fundamentalist terrorists are Barbarians.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          That's probably it...

                          Originally posted by paul mullin
                          Just rephrase it to, Islamic fundamentalist terrorists are Barbarians.
                          Hello again,

                          I didn't say Muslims are barbarians, I know there are many Muslims around the world who live peacefully as citizens of their country, including the USA and Israel.

                          However, I still maintain that since many Arabs view the world
                          in religious terms, that is a cause for concern. I don't adocate that they abandon their religion, but they know that many of
                          their barbaric habits make our stomachs turn. If we don't realize that they are making a spectacle of our dead just to make us want to cut and run, then we give them another tool to use against Western civilization.

                          Just ask yourself:"What would the great armies of the past done with Fallujah?" I guarantee that Alexander, the Romans, the Mongols, Napoleon and the Victorian British all would have razed it.

                          BTW, will there be another European war by the end of the century? Italy and Germany will have a majority of Muslims in their population within 60-70 years.

                          Geeky Nerd, Patton isn't my favorite general. He's just the best of the options.

                          Dark_Hercule
                          You can never have too much reconnaissance--Gen. G.S. Patton, Jr.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It is interesting to note that the word barbarian comes to us from the Latin barbarus , meaning foreigner. It came to its current connotation from Roman belief that any non-Roman must be a svage, uncouth, uncivilized, and thus beneath any Roman

                            As for what comprises civilized or civilization, this varies from person to person and culture to culture, generally some sort of coherent social structure, possibly a system of laws, social mores, a code of conduct. Technology does not necessarily imply civilization, though it is usually present. One example is the Native Americans - though they were, for the most part, semi-nomadic, they had established agriculture, a social hierarchy, distinct culture, an established "religion", including well-defined rituals. While some would describe them as "primitive", "barbarian" or "savages", their culture belies this.
                            Mens Est Clavis Victoriae
                            (The Mind Is The Key To Victory)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Are Arabs Barbarians (LONG) ????

                              Originally posted by Dark_Hercule
                              After last weeks tragedy in Fallujah, i've finally come to the conclusion that the Arabs are barbarians. I don't rush to this judgement, but I believe that there are historical precedents that justify this conclusion.
                              I think you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but you may just be a victim of the press.

                              Were they barbarians when the local imams hosted a Christmas Party for the Dutch Battle Group?

                              Are the hundreds of them in law enforcement or working for the coalition as translators and other key jobs barbarians when they risk their own lives and the lives of their family members to come to work every day and support us?

                              Are the people crying in Basrah tonight barbarians because their kids were killed in a car bomb attack?

                              Let's put a perspective on this.

                              There are, IIRC, 26million folks in Iraq, just over 20 million of them Arabs (the rest are Kurds, Turcomen, Assyrians, Mandeans, and Chaldeans as well as some even smaller groups). Of these 20+ million, 65% are Shi'a, only a few hundred of which are members of any anti-coalition group. The rest are Sunni, and less friendly to coalition forces -- but even among them, there are more serving in the ICDC and Iraqi Security organizations than are fighting against us.

                              Saying Arabs are barbarians is like saying all Americans are murderers, because of our high murder rate. It's just wrong.
                              Barcsi János ispán vezérőrnagy
                              Time Magazine's Person of the Year for 2003 & 2006


                              "Never pet a burning dog."

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