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Why Blackwater is Invulnerable

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  • Why Blackwater is Invulnerable

    linky:
    http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/iraq.../20071003.aspx

    October 3, 2007: Iraqis are upset with Blackwater International, the security firm that provides protection for American diplomats (and many other VIPs) when they travel about. Blackwater recruits experienced military veterans, especially commandos, to do the job. When Blackwater is attacked, they attack right back.
    어떻게 지내십니까?

  • #2
    The headline was written to get people to read the news article, but most of it was about successes that really has little to do with Blackwater.
    "If you are right, then you are right even if everyone says you are wrong. If you are wrong then you are wrong even if everyone says you are right." William Penn.

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    • #3
      When Blackwater is attacked, they attack right back.
      Apparently Blackwater fired first in over 80% of incidents in which its personnel used deadly force.

      http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/...ort/index.html

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      • #4
        Citing strategypage articles should result in an immediate ban...

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        • #5
          Blackwater really should be held up to a high service standard. It must always remember that it is a contractor, not a private military. Having said that, I'm not in a position to judge what happened from all the way here.

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          • #6
            It's interesting because although Iraq is quite dangerous, it's not as dangerous for the PMCs as most of the contracts they have in places like Sub-saharan Africa. (Mainly because in Iraq the PMCs can get support relatively quickly - the same can't be said for somewhere like Sierra Leone or Cote d'Ivore)

            I'd expect the shoot first mentality to be prevalent in those places too, but it doesn't seem to be. In fact it seems Blackwater is pretty much the only major PMC which adopts such loose ROEs.
            Now listening too;
            - Russell Robertson, ruining whatever credibility my football team once had.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Ogukuo72 View Post
              Blackwater really should be held up to a high service standard. It must always remember that it is a contractor, not a private military.
              It is the responsibility of the United States and Iraq to behave as responsible clients. This goes beyond accountability and high service standards. We need develop better ways of negotiating contracts, regulate our dependence on single contractors (it seems we can't continue OIF effectively without BW), evaluate necessity, and have better oversight of every stage of a contract.

              The Blackwater shooting only highlights a much greater facing not only the United States, but many nations around the world who increasingly are turning to private contractors to fulfill vital military services.
              "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Deltapooh View Post
                It is the responsibility of the United States and Iraq to behave as responsible clients. This goes beyond accountability and high service standards. We need develop better ways of negotiating contracts, regulate our dependence on single contractors (it seems we can't continue OIF effectively without BW), evaluate necessity, and have better oversight of every stage of a contract.

                The Blackwater shooting only highlights a much greater facing not only the United States, but many nations around the world who increasingly are turning to private contractors to fulfill vital military services.

                Yes, that too. No quarrel from me on that count.

                The impression (based upon incomplete information) I get is that most of the trouble come from State Department related convoys, so State Department DSS would have to do some accounting.

                There are several PMCs operating in Iraq, and as noted by some, not all of them are having trouble like Blackwater. I have met a few of those PMCs, both British and American previously at a security conference held here in Singapore, and they strike me as very professional and much more politically and socially aware of the situation in the Middle East than most ordinary people.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ivan Rapkinov View Post
                  It's interesting because although Iraq is quite dangerous, it's not as dangerous for the PMCs as most of the contracts they have in places like Sub-saharan Africa. (Mainly because in Iraq the PMCs can get support relatively quickly - the same can't be said for somewhere like Sierra Leone or Cote d'Ivore)

                  I'd expect the shoot first mentality to be prevalent in those places too, but it doesn't seem to be. In fact it seems Blackwater is pretty much the only major PMC which adopts such loose ROEs.
                  That's not accurate either, mate. While employeed with DynCorp as a PSS, we didn't have any support period. Any and all military outfits, be they US, Brits, Aussies, Kiwis, Danes, etc etc, could give two s#%ts about any of us. And rightly so. It was stated that if it goes down, you're on your own, and noone is coming to save your ass. Too be honest, my team actually rendered aid to several Aussie and British units that were under fire following ambushes on several occasions in southern Iraq. In this business, that's how you make friends, and that's how you maintain said friendships.

                  Now, when our convoy was ambushed on-route to BIA for a pickup, we were lucky enough to have had elements of a BCT in the area. My driver was killed when an RPG went right through the glass and center punched him in the chest, the round detonated, but continued and exploded beneath the vehicle. This happened while I was returning fire from the passenger side of the Trooper. The next thing I knew I was being extracted by a medic, covered in Sams guts, blood, bone fragments, feces etc etc... I remember that I was certain that I had lost my legs at that point, the medic reassured me by punching me in the legs, I spose I was bitching a bit too much. That followed with my assertion that my "junk" was gone (twig & berries). He reached down, said no man, your good. Pfft... I'll take Liberia and Sierra Leone any day over that place.

                  EDIT: Thank GOD for U.S. Army Medics!
                  Last edited by Marines; 09 Oct 07, 23:04.

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                  • #10
                    they're much prettier than Iraq is for sure.

                    cheers for the insight mate
                    Now listening too;
                    - Russell Robertson, ruining whatever credibility my football team once had.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ivan Rapkinov View Post
                      they're much prettier than Iraq is for sure.

                      cheers for the insight mate
                      Point being, it's not exactly black and white as some might think, matey.

                      On the other hand, do I think the BW personnel need too spend time in an Iraqi jail? Yes. I've seen how they operate, and I'm fairly certain said actions were in violation of their own RoE's.

                      Spray and pray doesn't cut it today. This isn't Viet-nam.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Marines View Post
                        That's not accurate either, mate. While employeed with DynCorp as a PSS, we didn't have any support period. Any and all military outfits, be they US, Brits, Aussies, Kiwis, Danes, etc etc, could give two s#%ts about any of us. And rightly so. It was stated that if it goes down, you're on your own, and noone is coming to save your ass. Too be honest, my team actually rendered aid to several Aussie and British units that were under fire following ambushes on several occasions in southern Iraq. In this business, that's how you make friends, and that's how you maintain said friendships.

                        Now, when our convoy was ambushed on-route to BIA for a pickup, we were lucky enough to have had elements of a BCT in the area. My driver was killed when an RPG went right through the glass and center punched him in the chest, the round detonated, but continued and exploded beneath the vehicle. This happened while I was returning fire from the passenger side of the Trooper. The next thing I knew I was being extracted by a medic, covered in Sams guts, blood, bone fragments, feces etc etc... I remember that I was certain that I had lost my legs at that point, the medic reassured me by punching me in the legs, I spose I was bitching a bit too much. That followed with my assertion that my "junk" was gone (twig & berries). He reached down, said no man, your good. Pfft... I'll take Liberia and Sierra Leone any day over that place.

                        EDIT: Thank GOD for U.S. Army Medics!
                        Was this between Jun 05 and May 06? The team had pickup personnel at BIA?
                        “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                        “To talk of many things:
                        Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                        Of cabbages—and kings—
                        And why the sea is boiling hot—
                        And whether pigs have wings.”
                        ― Lewis Carroll

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                        • #13
                          August 15th to be exact.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Marines View Post
                            Spray and pray doesn't cut it today. This isn't Viet-nam.
                            Obviously you have no idea what it was like in Vietnam or that garbage wouldn't have been posted.
                            "If you are right, then you are right even if everyone says you are wrong. If you are wrong then you are wrong even if everyone says you are right." William Penn.

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                            • #15
                              This is an important part of normalisation. Now that violence is down, the last thing we want is for western PMCs to be the ones inflicting innocent civilian casualties.

                              Rein them in, we don't need cowboy style tactics any more.

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