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Haditha massacre story continues to "unravel like a cheap suit"

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  • Haditha massacre story continues to "unravel like a cheap suit"

    Charges against two more Marines have been dismissed...
    Charges Dropped Against 2 Marines In Haditha Killings


    By Josh White
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Friday, August 10, 2007; Page A02


    A Marine Corps general dismissed all charges against a Marine lance corporal accused of murder for his role in the Nov. 2005 attacks that left as many as two dozen civilians dead in Haditha, Iraq, according to an announcement yesterday that praised the Marine's service in fighting "a shadowy enemy who hides among the innocent people."

    The finding by Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis, commander of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, exonerates Justin L. Sharratt, 22, of Canonsburg, Pa. In a two-page document, Mattis not only cleared Sharratt of legal charges but also called him "innocent" in the general's eyes. The dismissal came after an investigating officer found that Sharratt acted appropriately when he shot a group of armed men while searching a house in Haditha hours after other members of his unit killed numerous women and children in an alleged killing spree through two other houses...LINK
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  • #2
    The "cheap suit" has just about vanished...

    Funny how this story wasn't trumpeted by Time magazine...

    From the October 3, 2007 North County Times:
    Officer: Drop murder charges against Haditha Marine

    By: MARK WALKER - Staff Writer

    Official recommends Wuterich should be tried for negligent homicide in deaths of two women, five children

    CAMP PENDLETON -- A Marine Corps official has recommended that murder charges be dismissed against a Camp Pendleton squad leader accused in the deaths of 17 civilians killed in the Iraqi city of Haditha two years ago.

    The official, Lt. Col. Paul Ware, said in a recommendation obtained by the North County Times that rather than face murder charges, squad leader Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich should be tried for the lesser offense of negligent homicide in the deaths of five children and two women.

    Ware recommended 10 other murder charges against Wuterich be dismissed.

    "I believe after reviewing all the evidence that no trier of fact can conclude Staff Sgt. Wuterich formed the criminal intent to kill," Ware wrote in reference to the women and children. "When a Marine fails to exercise due care and civilians die, the charge of negligent homicide, and not murder, is appropriate."

    Ware's report, issued to prosecutors and defense attorneys this week, found the evidence against Wuterich contradictory. Ware's role as the case's investigating officer is akin to that of a judge presiding over a pretrial hearing.

    "The case against Staff Sgt. Wuterich is simply not strong enough to conclude he committed murder beyond a reasonable doubt," Ware wrote. "Almost all witnesses have an obvious bias or prejudice."

    Wuterich's attorneys were reviewing the report and were unavailable. Marine Corps policy dictates that officials and prosecutors do not comment on an investigating officer's findings...LINK
    When the murder charges against Sgt. Wuterich are dropped - the Haditha "Massacre" fiction will have come to an end. I just want to know when Tim McGirk of Time magazine and Jack Murtha are going to be charged with Treason...Or at least sued for slander.
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    • #3
      Or as I suspect the left wing media will say when he's acquitted, oh look its a conspiracy of american military justice or something to that effect.

      Comment


      • #4
        I'd prefer a Marine to be tried by one other than another Marine. It's traditionally the most insular service and "The Proud and the Few" corps d'sprit is ingrained well and truly. Great thing in combat, not so great when investigating one of your own.

        but the problem of negligent homicide is the fact they're sending soldiers to do what basically amounts to police work. CQB for soldiers is much different to that of police officers, and until that's acknowledged, wrongful deaths are going to be the result.

        I don't doubt there was a unavoidable wrongful shooting, it happens in hotzones all the time; but the veracity of the tribunal's claims are inherently biased as well - they're not going to say USMC CQB LTL room clearing drill is deficient. At least not on the record.

        But claiming it's a media beat up is sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the reasons it happened in the first place.
        Now listening too;
        - Russell Robertson, ruining whatever credibility my football team once had.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Ivan Rapkinov View Post
          I'd prefer a Marine to be tried by one other than another Marine. It's traditionally the most insular service and "The Proud and the Few" corps d'sprit is ingrained well and truly. Great thing in combat, not so great when investigating one of your own.

          but the problem of negligent homicide is the fact they're sending soldiers to do what basically amounts to police work. CQB for soldiers is much different to that of police officers, and until that's acknowledged, wrongful deaths are going to be the result.

          I don't doubt there was a unavoidable wrongful shooting, it happens in hotzones all the time; but the veracity of the tribunal's claims are inherently biased as well - they're not going to say USMC CQB LTL room clearing drill is deficient. At least not on the record.

          But claiming it's a media beat up is sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the reasons it happened in the first place.
          I think it was a case of employing the wrong CQC room clearing drill. The one used in this case was more suited for a combat-intensive situation. The USMC does have good CQC drills for coping with situations where lethal force must be dialed down. So we have to look at the rules of engagement and principles guiding their development.

          Hopefully, someone is looking beyond the media and political hype with the desire to understand what went wrong that day, and how best to prevent future incidents, while achieving our objectives. I think General Petraeus might be one.
          "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

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          • #6
            What prejudiced crappola!

            Originally posted by Ivan Rapkinov View Post
            I'd prefer a Marine to be tried by one other than another Marine. It's traditionally the most insular service and "The Proud and the Few" corps d'sprit is ingrained well and truly. Great thing in combat, not so great when investigating one of your own.
            What a vile, biased, slanderous view. There is no shortage of Marines holed up in brigs wordwide serving time for various crimes, minor, major, and everything in between. The fact is is that those Marines received AK fire from within the confines of the village. That has been proven by the 7.62x39mm rounds recovered from the Marines original position outside the village. Oh yeah, NCIS knew about that right away. They're the ones who recovered the bullets. Bagged them and labeled them and everything. The Marines were fired upon, the villagers have been lying about that all along, and the assholes at Time magazine have been too damned lazy, or too damned prejudiced, to examine the actual facts of the case. If the terrorists would stop using "civilians" as human shields, and if the Iraqis would stop sheltering terrorists, then things like Haditha wouldn't happen. But no, they've got to f*ck with the bull, don't they. So why are their complaints given any credence when they finally get the horns? The answer to that depends on one's political stance more than anything else I suppose.
            I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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            • #7
              Let's not forget that the original version of this story...reported by Tim McGirk for Time magazine...had the Marines executing unarmed, kneeling men, women and children and no ongoing firefight.

              Let's also not forget that Jack Murtha was running around calling these Marines murderers and saying that there was no firefight. Worse yet - Murtha tried to make it appear that he got this version of events from the Commandant of the Marine Corps.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                When the murder charges against Sgt. Wuterich are dropped - the Haditha "Massacre" fiction will have come to an end.
                So....you're ok with homicide?
                Last edited by Crash; 17 Oct 07, 12:49.
                #occupyarmchairgeneral.
                Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true. Demosthenes.
                Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. Laurence J. Peter

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Crash View Post
                  So....you're ok with homicide?
                  If Sgt. Wuterich is found guilty of "negligent homicide", he'll be punished. Even if he is exonerated, he'll never be cleared in the eyes of the public; he's already been tried and convicted in the media. And the myth of the Haditha Massacre has become a fact in the Arab street.

                  Jack Murtha and Tim McGirk are liars and slanderers who should be charged with Treason - or at least sued for slander. My guess is that their crimes will not only go unpunished, but will largely go unmentioned by the mainstream media.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                    My guess is that their crimes will not only go unpunished, but will largely go unmentioned by the mainstream media.
                    Or be applauded by some...
                    If you can't set a good example, be a glaring warning.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                      If Sgt. Wuterich is found guilty of "negligent homicide", he'll be punished. Even if he is exonerated, he'll never be cleared in the eyes of the public; he's already been tried and convicted in the media. And the myth of the Haditha Massacre has become a fact in the Arab street.

                      Jack Murtha and Tim McGirk are liars and slanderers who should be charged with Treason - or at least sued for slander. My guess is that their crimes will not only go unpunished, but will largely go unmentioned by the mainstream media.
                      So what your saying is that if Wuterich is found guilty, he is currently presumed innocent, and charged with homicide then Murtha, McGirk, Arabs around the world, etc, were wrong in their claims something wrong happened here...in contrast to the official report?

                      Ware says that there is not enough evidence to prove he committed murder beyond a reasonable doubt as "almost all witnesses have an obvious bias or prejudice." No sh#t sherlock! That's why you face 12 peers.
                      Last edited by Crash; 17 Oct 07, 13:06.
                      #occupyarmchairgeneral.
                      Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true. Demosthenes.
                      Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. Laurence J. Peter

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Crash View Post
                        So what your saying is that if Wuterich is found guilty, he is currently presumed innocent, and charged with homicide then Murtha, McGirk, Arabs around the world, etc, were wrong in their claims something wrong happened here...in contrast to the official report?

                        The original report by McGirk in Time was a LIE...
                        In the original version of this story, TIME reported that "one of the most damning pieces of evidence investigators have in their possession, John Sifton of Human Rights Watch told Time's Tim McGirk, is a photo, taken by a Marine with his cell phone that shows Iraqis kneeling — and thus posing no threat — before they were shot." While Sifton did tell TIME that there was photographic evidence, taken by Marines, he had only heard about the specific content of the photos from reports done by NBC, and had no firsthand knowledge. TIME regrets the error...LINK TO TIME MAGAZINE ARTICLE
                        Originally posted by Crash
                        Ware says that there is not enough evidence to prove he committed murder beyond a reasonable doubt as "almost all witnesses have an obvious bias or prejudice." No sh#t sherlock! That's why you face 12 peers.
                        Why bother? Benedict Arnold Murtha had already convicted them.


                        Murtha to reporters on Capitol Hill on May 18, 2006...

                        It’s much worse than was reported in Time magazine,” Murtha, a Democrat, former Marine colonel and Vietnam war veteran, told reporters on Capitol Hill.

                        There was no firefight. There was no [bomb] that killed those innocent people,” Murtha explained, adding there were “about twice as many” Iraqis killed than Time had reported.



                        Murtha on ABC This Week on May 28, 2006...

                        "I will not excuse murder, and this is what happened," Murtha said.


                        Then there's this little gem a few days later, also on ABC News...

                        GIBSON: The commandant told you that this was a case of murder?

                        MURTHA: Charlie, don’t mince words here. The commandant said it was a very serious incident. He was not going to tell me it was murder, but everything looked to him just like it looks to me. He didn’t say that in so many words, but he told me exactly what happened.
                        Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Crash View Post
                          So what your saying is that if Wuterich is found guilty, he is currently presumed innocent, and charged with homicide then Murtha, McGirk, Arabs around the world, etc, were wrong in their claims something wrong happened here...in contrast to the official report?

                          Ware says that there is not enough evidence to prove he committed murder beyond a reasonable doubt as "almost all witnesses have an obvious bias or prejudice." No sh#t sherlock! That's why you face 12 peers.
                          Then I'll say it. The Navy JAG has already been found in contempt of court by the trial judge for withholding exculpatory evidence. A violation that serious can result in a mistrial, an overturned conviction on appeal, or disbarment and/or courts-martial for the prosecutors. That's an item that has not been reported in any of the major mainstream media outlets: not the New York Times, not the Washington Post, not the three broadcast networks, nor CNN. I had to hear about that one from a buddy in Dago, then I read about in Soldier of Fortune. Am I the only one here who finds that kind of reporting (or non-reporting, as the case may be) to be truly pathetic?
                          I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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                          • #14
                            I think the Navy JAG was relying on faulty intel from the NCIS...
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                              What a vile, biased, slanderous view. There is no shortage of Marines holed up in brigs wordwide serving time for various crimes, minor, major, and everything in between.
                              it's not vile or slanderous or anything of the kind - Marines (whether they be Dutch, British, russian etc) are traditionally always the most tight knit of any arm of service. In the aussie army it's expressed as the concept of "mateship" I'm not sure what the US guys call it. A USMC court judging a guy that beat his wife, or stole from the company bickie tin is fine.

                              But when it's an issue that has political impact, it needs to be seen as fair and impartial for both the public and the court in question. Here cops don't investigate cops - there's been too many claims of corruption, and whether or not there is - that's irrelevant. Public perception is important, and you can only have good public perception when it's seen as completely impartial.

                              Now that may impugn the USMC's honour, and I'm sure you'll take umbrage at that, but it's the way the world works. A USMC court finding a Marine not guilty is always going to have the taint of bias hanging over it. Whether it's deserved or not.
                              Last edited by Ivan Rapkinov; 17 Oct 07, 19:57.
                              Now listening too;
                              - Russell Robertson, ruining whatever credibility my football team once had.

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