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Iraqi interim Constitution

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  • Iraqi interim Constitution

    For those that are interested the interim constitution for Iraq is out, find it here:
    http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/ira...erimconst.html

  • #2
    The right step in the direction of eliminating the international stigma of state-sponsored terrorism that clings to so many Arab states in the region. In the new Iraq there will be no more state cash prizes to Palestinian and Syrian terrorists.

    If the democratic process can be carried out without the country descending into civil war the Iranians, the Saudis and others will soon feel the heat too. The people in the region are being brainswashed by state agitators who offer them racism, terrorism and xenophobia as distraction from reality. In Saudi Arabia unemployment is over 30% and most of the quality jobs are held by the 30,000-strong Royal Family clan. In Iran religious nazis are disqualifying reformers from elections.

    But the clock is ticking.
    Last edited by MonsterZero; 08 Mar 04, 15:10.

    "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
    --Frederick II, King of Prussia

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    • #3
      True MonsterZero, I just hope the final constitution bares some resemblence to this one.

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      • #4
        Check this out, it's from Iran. But before our lives are over we'll see some major lies buried in that part of the world under huge tombstones, just like in Dubya's 9/11 speech to Congress. Think whatever you want of him but he got that right about the graveyard of history's forgotten lies.
        Last edited by MonsterZero; 08 Mar 04, 22:25.

        "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
        --Frederick II, King of Prussia

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        • #5
          Agreed MonsterZero.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by MonsterZero
            If the democratic process can be carried out without the country descending into civil war the Iranians, the Saudis and others will soon feel the heat too.
            This effect can only be achieved if Iraq maintains some identity with it's Arab neighbors. The Interim Constitution is likely going to have the opposite effect. It appears to be very Americanized. Thus the Constitution, and the democratic process that evolves from it, will alienate Iraq from its neighbors, complicating the expansion of democracy in the region.

            The US strategy should not be to eliminate Islam from the Iraqi government. Instead, it should focus on convincing Iraqis to apply safeguards to ensure its presence does not oppress people. This way, Iraq maintains its cultural identity without necessarily allowing religion to dominate the government.

            Originally posted by MonsterZero
            it's from Iran. But before our lives are over we'll see some major lies buried in that part of the world under huge tombstones, just like in Dubya's 9/11 speech to Congress. Think whatever you want of him but he got that right about the graveyard of history's forgotten lies.
            Iran is slowly moving toward democracy. Despite recent setbacks, conservatives in Teheran continue to loose ground. Demonstrations against the government is common. 70% of the country is under the age of 30yrs. Many have rejected the strict rules of Islam. Women dress in short skirts and open blouses at parties. College kids make jokes about the government and the Ayatollah. More people are opening to the ideal of an improved relationship with the West, which could ease high unemployment.

            In a report I recently completed, I concluded the US should a new foriegn policy that is multi-dimensional. We must extend the welcome mat to the Iranian people by holding meetings to determine new ways to ease Iran's economic crisis, and address other issues concerning both countries. We should also abandon the blunt isolation policy that has been for twenty-five years in favor of involving Iran in regional issues.

            Iran is completely different from Iraq. Saddam Hussein controlled every aspect of government. There was little delegation of power, and no room for debate. One of the reasons I feel war was justified is because we could never change Iraq's posture because the only party with such authority expressed little real interest in changing his ways.

            In Iran, the hardliners lack this kind of control. They can be persuaded by factions inside the country. Unfortunately, the US seems unwilling to seize what might be an excellent opportunity to begin the process of slowly improving Iran-US relations. We are still driven by images of burning flags, threats of extermination, etc. America seems reluctant to even acknowledge the Iran that held candle-light vigils after the 9/11 attack; or the Iran that is filled with a bunch of young people who are increasingly looking to the promises a relationship with the west have.

            Nearsighted foriegn policies threaten the success of our efforts in the Middle East. The US is approaching the political situation in the region with impatience and arrogance. We should develop policies that gradually, but continuously move the Middle East toward democracy. At the rate we're going now, Iraq will hold one election, then abandon the political ideal because it lacks the necessary checks-n-balances required to work. If we fail, many people in region might turn toward radicalism to find the stability and identity they so desire. Of course, that will lead no where either. Haste makes waste. I fear the US is well on its way to proving that in both Iraq and Iran.
            "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Deltapooh
              Thus the Constitution, and the democratic process that evolves from it, will alienate Iraq from its neighbors, complicating the expansion of democracy in the region.
              Pooh, are you talking about Iraqi alienation from the people of the region or the other governments in the region? Those are two separate things. Some level of alienation from other Arab governments is actually expected as proof that the strategy is working. If they accept the new Iraq they accept their own demise; it's pretty obvious. People in the region do want democracy and fair popular elections; it's always been that way and it has nothing to do with pro-American or anti-American sentiments. It's natural, people of all races and nationalities want to feel they matter.

              "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
              --Frederick II, King of Prussia

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              • #8
                Originally posted by MonsterZero
                Pooh, are you talking about Iraqi alienation from the people of the region or the other governments in the region? Those are two separate things. Some level of alienation from other Arab governments is actually expected as proof that the strategy is working. If they accept the new Iraq they accept their own demise; it's pretty obvious. People in the region do want democracy and fair popular elections; it's always been that way and it has nothing to do with pro-American or anti-American sentiments. It's natural, people of all races and nationalities want to feel they matter.
                I mean the people in the region. The only way democracy will be established throughout the Middle East is if someone with influence invent a system of government that includes the ideals of democracy, and the cultural ideals embedded in Islam. The laws of such a government must continue ensure neither ideal consumes the other.

                The Interim Constitution basically requires all Iraqis to abandon their cultural identity in favor of freedom and progress. Even if the Iraqi people support such an process, fellow Arabs in neighboring steps will probably be more reluctant to follow in their steps. Worse still, radicals will argue Iraq is a nation of sin. Whatever hardships befall her will be blamed on its negligence in upholding the Islamic faith. This could enhance radicalism in the region. Arabs will look at Iraq as a puppet, not an independent Arab nation, which is counterproductive to our strategic objectives.

                The best system for Iraq is one that balances Islam and democracy. As confidence in the power of the vote grows, people will abandon those ideals many of us in the west fear. Women rights, tolerance, etc can not be established overnight, less they be rejected. Hell, equality was only established along a broad scale in the last forty years or so in America, and we still have alot of work to do.

                So we can't expect Iraq or the Middle East to flip scripts in a few months or years. It could take a century for America to achieve bring the region around to democracy. We must be patient and committed enough to give the Middle East time to develop a better system than that offered by radicals. It will be a process filled with many setbacks. Yet, we must remain steady both for the people in the region, and ourselves.

                Unfortunately, the US seems hell-bent to try to set up democracy in a few years. As a result, we are going to see the same kind of instability and violence the rapid de-colonialization process had in Africa. There will be one or so elections, then people will abandon democracy in favor of something else because no one was around to help them develop the finer points of the democratic ideal.
                "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

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                • #9
                  Hah, I guess many Muslims who don't understand democracy (because they never experienced it) associate "democracy" with something "American" and therefore "bad".

                  "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
                  --Frederick II, King of Prussia

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                  • #10
                    Hello,

                    I think the problem is that the United Nations is pushing America to get out of Iraq as soon as possible so it could come in and "assist" Iraq. I'm sure some European countries prefer to see this.

                    No one wants America to stay in Iraq longer than what is needed. America is feeling a lot of pressure from various factions and other external factors that could jeoparodize Iraq's fledgling democracy.

                    Hopefully, Iraqis can wake up on their own and take the steps in the right direction. It's all up to them. They've been given some opportunities to assert of themselves.

                    America shouldn't set up a timetable, she should take it easy and guide Iraq through difficult times even at expense of her national budget as Iraq is a key strategic place that must be maintained no matter what happens.

                    Dan
                    Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

                    "Aim small, miss small."

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                    • #11
                      When you say "they" do you mean the Kurds who are quite willing to govern not only their region, but small sections of other countries as well. Or do you mean the religous leaders who I'm quite sure are ready to take over the governance of Iraq. And the Sunni minority would quite like to assert themselves again too I think. So there are plenty of volunteers to do the asserting, but none of them will have the same concept of what Iraq should be (well the Kurds do, in so far as it's that bit which isn't Kurdistan). What is required right now is nation building, not democracy. Then there is the question of whether American democracy is really appropriate when the nation building process is under way.

                      So it's not so much of wanting Americans out (I don't think any body really wants in) but not wanting the Americans to screw it up. The UN administrators and European leaders realise there is more to nation building than printing up a lot of how to vote cards and saying "Welcome to democracy, goodbye".
                      Last edited by Prester John; 10 Mar 04, 05:27.

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